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  1. #51
    erikg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ME Super View Post
    I'd have to say, Ilford has a pretty impressive B&W range of film. I don't shoot much B&W, mostly color, but I generally do shoot Ilford when it's B&W (the exception is in the IR film, where I typically shoot the Rollei IR400s).

    Let's take a look at what you can get in the Ilford/Harman line from B&H (I'm only looking at 35mm here, since that's what I primarily shoot), traditional grain films first:
    ISO 50 - Pan F
    ISO 100 - Kentmere 100
    ISO 125 - FP4+
    ISO 200 - SFX
    ISO 400 - Kentmere 400
    ISO 400 - HP5+

    In the T-grain type 35mm films, we have:
    ISO 100 - Delta 100
    ISO 400 - Delta 400
    ISO 3200 - Delta 3200 (note this film has a true speed of 1000, but low contrast so it looks good when pushed to 3200).

    And finally in the chromogenic films:
    ISO 400 - XP2 Super

    So Ilford/Harman has an offering for B&W film in box speeds ranging from 50 to 3200, including 2 100-speed films and 4 400-speed films. Contrast this with Kodak B&W emulsions, also available from B&H:
    Traditional - 400TX
    T-Grain - TMax 100
    T-Grain - TMax 400
    Chromogenic: BW400CN

    And finally Fuji, available from B&H:
    ISO 100 - Neopan Acros 100
    ISO 400 - Neopan 400

    So Ilford has 10 B&W films, Kodak has 4 B&W films, and Fuji has 2 B&W films. I dare say Harman is doing something right to be able to support that many B&W films! Would a true B&W IR film be a good thing to have? Sure, but not if it hurts Harman's ability to offer the impressive variety of film it already produces.

    Yes! Very impressive. You could also add Ilford Pan 100 and Pan 400, available in some parts of the world and easily obtainable in the US. And to think that two of the films you list have been added within the last 10 years, no grass growing under Ilford/Harman's feet.

  2. #52

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    It's a bit of a Catch-22, similar perhaps to what is happening with the New55 project; you can't build a market of new customers until you have the product for them to use and love. And you can't build a new product until you have a market for it. The devil is in the forecast I guess.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Nope. That Harmon is audio products. For example, Harmon/Kardon.
    Oops. Harman. And Harman/Kardon.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon R Galley View Post
    Dear Paul,

    The world market for IR film is very, very small.

    It would not be viable for us to produce one and we have capacity to make down to pretty small coated volumes if needed.

    I have mentioned many times some of the complicated manufacturing issues around very low volume products that may be attractive to film users.

    1 ) 35mm / 120 and Sheet film are typically produced on three different bases with three different
    formulations.

    2 ) You can produce small volume products ( and we do ) but when you are trying to get a return on your R&D investment and have to spread that over a very small volume it would make the cost per film prohibitive and you would sell less.

    3 ) IR film has very poor keeping qualities compared to normal panchromatic emulsion types.

    4 ) Making a true IR film would compromise sales of ILFORD SFX film, we have a policy of keeping all films currently made in production in all existing formats.

    5 ) When making small volumes waste rises to a higher percentage of good coated stock.

    Finally I noted somebody saying ' HARMAN may never introduce another film' well that is an opinion not based in fact, but of course its an opinion to which everyone is entitled....

    We will look, and do look at new product opportunities on a monthly basis, in depth, and the team of 7people that discuss it have well in excess of 120 years experience in the photo market, balanced against our wish to innovate and satisfy customer requirements is to run a profitable and stable business that continues to focus on analog monochrome photographic products as its core market ( although we do other things ) and to offer and manufacture now, and in the future the largest range of ultra high quality monochrome photographic products in the world, bar none.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
    Simon,

    Is it possible, that perhaps since SFX is not available in sheet film, that you would look at the sheet film market for IR.

    I feel like the yearly special order ULF might be a good place to get a sense of the market interest? With everyone's stock of aura 820 and other LF sheet IR running low, it might be a good time to introduce this just in sheet film?

    Sheet film users are already used to spending a bit more, and it wouldn't interfere with SFX sales as there are none for sheet film (as far as I can recall, please correct me if I'm wrong).

    So perhaps this is an option? Maybe not this year but next years ULF special order run?

  5. #55

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    Stone,

    I suspect that sheet film IR or near-IR (i.e. SFX 200) sales would be absolutely tiny and Harman would get into the usual difficulties of cost and wastage in production etc.

    Tom

  6. #56

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    Reply From HARMAN technology Limited Re True IR Film.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kershaw View Post
    Stone,

    I suspect that sheet film IR or near-IR (i.e. SFX 200) sales would be absolutely tiny and Harman would get into the usual difficulties of cost and wastage in production etc.

    Tom
    Maybe, but I think the LF'ers might consider the higher price to snag fresh 820ish IR... It doesn't interfere with the SFX and is only one base to deal with instead of 3 different ones, so it's a little more reasonable of a request.

    EDIT: I'm talking 4x5 and 8x10 only (maybe 5x7). No extreme cutting sizes to start, just basics.

    I'll wait to hear what Simon thinks.
    Last edited by StoneNYC; 05-31-2014 at 10:59 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by erikg View Post
    Yes! Very impressive. You could also add Ilford Pan 100 and Pan 400, available in some parts of the world and easily obtainable in the US. And to think that two of the films you list have been added within the last 10 years, no grass growing under Ilford/Harman's feet.
    wow, and some say this is the twilight of film photography ?

    its great to see ilford/harman moving ONWARD+UPWARD!

    its too bad they don't sell some of their emulsion in a bottle !
    i'd buy it in a heartbeat ...
    silver magnets, trickle tanks sold
    artwork often times sold for charity
    PM me for details

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Maybe, but I think the LF'ers might consider the higher price to snag fresh 820ish IR... It doesn't interfere with the SFX and is only one base to deal with instead of 3 different ones, so it's a little more reasonable of a request.

    EDIT: I'm talking 4x5 and 8x10 only (maybe 5x7). No extreme cutting sizes to start, just basics.

    I'll wait to hear what Simon thinks.
    Same emulsion R&D even smaller market volume.

  9. #59

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    I would like to say thank you to Simon and Ilford / Harman for listening to the customers, and caring enough to actually let us know why things may be doable or not.

    I was somewhat concerned that I may be making a mistake by pressing forward with film, and building a darkroom - but I am fairly confident that as long as companies like Harman are around, we should expand our use of their products.

    I also would also love to see Ilford produce a run of 220 and 127 every year, but would also like to see them spool up some 620 if that is within reason. Seems that it may only require the slightly different spool size for 620. If people can use their old favorites again, then I would think that would be additional film sales.

    One thing we can ALL do, is encourage people to dust off their old film camera's and start shooting film again. Get people interested in the FUN side of photography again. And get them using Ilford products. The most important long term goal is that Ilford / Harman remain profitable. That is what will assure us of having the products we love.

    So, Thank you Simon. And let the everyone know that the hard work and great products are truly appreciated.

    Warmest Regards,

    Blaine

  10. #60

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    I wish Ilford could get the formula from Kodak for the emulsion for infrared, because it really was a good emulsion. A good emulsion on a LOUSY base. I remember it was "Estar AH" base, whatever that is. Curly damn stuff. No grey dye to stop blooming, so the pictures always came out with an "aura" around everything. I could live with the horrible grain, but not the grain AND that awful base. If Ilford could get hold of the formula and put it on a decent material, then the world would have its first good roll of infrared film. Oh, that's right--30 years too late; nobody to buy it anymore.



 

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