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  1. #11
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Black and white always was my first love anyway. But maybe when all of the legacy dinosaurs of color coating have gone extinct there might be enough of a remaining market niche for someone like Harman to take an E-6 gamble. They've certainly got the modern facilities and coating expertise. And the right size. And you can't tell me that the possibility hasn't been at least whispered about in strategy meetings, even if public denial would be swift and sure.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  2. #12
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Black and white always was my first love anyway. But maybe when all of the legacy dinosaurs of color coating have gone extinct there might be enough of a remaining market niche for someone like Harman to take an E-6 gamble. They've certainly got the modern facilities and coating expertise. And the right size. And you can't tell me that the possibility hasn't been at least whispered about in strategy meetings, even if public denial would be swift and sure.

    Ken
    More likely, someone else may contract with Harman to produce the film for them.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  3. #13
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Black and white always was my first love anyway. But maybe when all of the legacy dinosaurs of color coating have gone extinct there might be enough of a remaining market niche for someone like Harman to take an E-6 gamble. They've certainly got the modern facilities and coating expertise. And the right size. And you can't tell me that the possibility hasn't been at least whispered about in strategy meetings, even if public denial would be swift and sure.

    Ken
    You do realize there's mountains of IP and development/experience being lost if Fuji/Kodak were to ditch all of their E-6 though right? Kodak's already there - although I hope they still have the ability to remanufacture if necessary. If you like E-6, shoot it. Maybe that's the problem, not enough people shooting color, or too many people thinking "oh I'll just digital for that."
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  4. #14
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    You do realize there's mountains of IP and development/experience being lost if Fuji/Kodak were to ditch all of their E-6 though right? Kodak's already there - although I hope they still have the ability to remanufacture if necessary. If you like E-6, shoot it. Maybe that's the problem, not enough people shooting color, or too many people thinking "oh I'll just digital for that."
    Yes, I do. But I also realize the futility of expecting the ~65,000 members of APUG to pick up the slack on the consumption side of the equation such that they would replace the billions of consumers required by Kodak/Fuji to keep their coating lines operating at any reasonable level of efficiency.

    Who's got the calculator? How many times does 65,000 divide into a couple of billion? And how many times have we heard that Kodak can produce enough film product in ten seconds to supply current world demand for ten years? There is no way out of from either one of these calculations, no matter how many time the equal key is pressed.

    Except perhaps to do as Mirko at ADOX is apparently trying to do. Save as much expertise and production equipment as you can, then reengineer the product down to realistically salable micro-production volumes, and have a go at it from there.

    This is where the future survival of all film (and paper) lies. Unless you can figure out how to get each of those 65,000 APUG members to start buying and shooting master roll quantities of these products. And do it fast!

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #15
    clayne's Avatar
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    65,000 would be a decent chunk of people though in it's own right - *in the current market*. Honestly I do't think billions of people have been shooting slide film for atleast the last 20 years. Think about how many people we have on the planet, how many of those actually use a camera, and how many went past color negative, or even did anything with said camera more than once a year.

    We'll never get real figures, sadly.

    I still shoot E-6 though, I've purchased multiple quantities of 135, 120, and 4x5 from Freestyle in the near past as well. Unfortunately I just cannot afford 8x10, nor do I shoot it in any emulsion (and this saddens me, because it means I'll never be able to see an 8x10 transparency of my own).
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  6. #16

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    Ken,

    How colour materials can be produced at a smaller scale is an interesting question...

    Tom

  7. #17
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Ken-
    Kodak and Fuji do not need billions of customers, but they do need millions. And I have never heard that Kodak can produce enough in ten seconds to meet world demand for ten years.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  8. #18
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Ken-
    Kodak and Fuji do not need billions of customers, but they do need millions. And I have never heard that Kodak can produce enough in ten seconds to meet world demand for ten years.
    Hyperbole usually makes the point more effectively. But whether it's billions or millions, ten seconds or ten days, the fundamental point remains. If the point wasn't valid, the film manufacturing industry wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  9. #19
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Ok, I didn't catch the hyperbole. Your point is of course valid.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #20

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    Provia 400X didn't surprised me. I thought that generally speaking film costs are getting so expensive fewer people would need fast film. I said it before but some peiople dismissed that saying 400 slides was a advantage Fuji had.

    Over here in New Zealand they are asking for $32US for a roll of any slides so it's not helping. Maybe if they rip people off even for few customers maybe they make more profit than selling more at a lower price. I import film like many here but I also export to the USA for development. But checked online, $16US for a roll of Provia 400X is getting expensive even by USA standards.

    As a average Joe hobbyist. I admit that film is so expensive that I am shooting fewer, more carefully. For my daily shots etc ... I am shooting digital but might consider b/w. But I have only considered Kodak and Ilford. Maybe Fuji is considering pulling out of b/w altogether. Could also be that in the print film, that they might consolidate to Superia 800 which is what they are using for disposables in Asia at least.

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