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  1. #31
    zsas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    That's a prize I am NOT happy to win. I dont get it. How can ONE product line for color slide film be too much for the market to bare. Provia is the last standard all purpose color slide film. Even rationalizing down to a single product line was still too much supply, not enough demand.

    And why in the world did Fujifilm commit the resources to reformulate Neopan 400 and then market a launch of this product?? What a phenomenal waste.
    I am really sorry. I am using a different 400 film, but for sure would be livid should this have occurred to my fav 400 b/w.

    Re chromes, is there a chrome made by Rollei? Something like a 200 film? don't know much about it, I...ummm....sorry to say, don't do chromes anymore, c41 round here...sorry to have been part of the problem....
    Andy

  2. #32
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    You did see the official notice about the cancellation of these two films, didn't you? How much more official can it get??
    The official note is from Fuji North-America. To my understanding there have been different distribution approaches between the different Fuji subsidiaries.

  3. #33
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Well, for the first time ever I just now placed an order to assure myself a modest future supply of an announced discontinued film product.* Ordered 25 rolls of 120 Provia 400. Added to the 5 in-date frozen rolls I currently have, that's 30 total.

    Combined (at least for now) with the still available 120 Provia 100 for most situations, and at my modest level of color use, 30 rolls of 400-speed is probably a ten year supply for me. And chances are good that the E-6 chemistry will also be discontinued before then anyway. At least at that time I can presumably also order up enough home processing kit to finish off my remaining rolls, if they haven't all been cosmic-rayed to death beforehand.

    Unless someone like Harman eventually steps in, or a Harman partnership together with someone else, as Matt speculated in an earlier post, I'm pretty convinced that color film photography of all types will die off completely within my lifetime.

    It's the unavoidable Tyranny of the Bell Curve. Most available consumer money clusters around the mean of the normal distribution, so most of the targeted consumer products do likewise. Step too far away from that mean, as we here all have done, and your product choices dwindle very, very quickly. It's the price to be paid for not running with the herd.

    Heck, not too long ago I read an advertisement (by Sony, if I remember correctly) that was literally begging the photographic consumer to consider using "real cameras" with which to make their photos. The "real cameras" were Sony digital point-and-shoots, as opposed to the not-mentioned-but-inferred smartphones.

    So already the technology that triggered the film crisis has itself begun to drift dangerously away from that same mean.

    Ken

    * Kodachrome doesn't count since the unique processing also died with it, so there was no point in securing future supplies.
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 07-20-2013 at 11:25 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Better clarity...
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    What is it we expect Fujifilm to do here? Sell film for a loss? Is that what the film world has come to? Just manufacture film for a loss.
    Of course not. How exactly would that help anyone?

    The problem isn't discontinuing lines that are making a loss. That's just good business sense. The problem is the confusion around every single time they cancel a product. The problem is that a lot of people don't trust them, and that hasn't just sprung up out of nowhere; *something* Fuji is doing has caused that. The problem is that they now have almost no presence left in b&w films. That doesn't inspire confidence, it feels more like a last desperate rearguard action of a division Fuji don't really need to keep around.

    Compare to Ilford who don't cause those same trust issues.

  5. #35
    clayne's Avatar
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    High context societies have interesting ways of communicating. I often wonder if discontinuation is considered a failure - and hence they hem-haw back and forth on it until it can no longer be avoided. One thing's for sure: their speciality surely isn't clarity.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  6. #36
    AgX
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    Acros and all the other films in question here are still listed by Fuji. As stated above the communication by Fuji is midiocre, and everyone in this thread can chose a statement he likes. The funny thing about this thread that it is even about a statement by Freestyle not by Fuji...

  7. #37
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    Absolutely! Failure represents a loss of "face" and is to be avoided at ALL costs. If Fujifilm considers discontinuing a film a failure, then that is a massive blow to them.
    Yep, exactly what I meant.

    I'm going to presume you're a westerner in China and that you've banged your head against a wall multiple times upon coming to terms with "face", eh? Great way to collectively hold back the entire society due to a baked in insecurity of looking wrong, or losing respect, isn't it? I have some fundamental disagreements with how "face" is handled in high-context societies. I think it takes more courage to admit wrong and to volunteer loss of face - but in the end one is usually respected more for admitting wrong. I don't get why they can't get over this hang-up. It's holding them back.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  8. #38
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    Oh no, not Provia 400X! After the loss of Astia this will make me stop shooting slide film altogether...

  9. #39
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    Being a slide shooter myself I was all over Provia 400X when it was introduced. While I loved the colors of E100VS, these two extra stops of speed often gave me an opportunity to shoot when 100 speed film would give unacceptable exposure times. It developed and scanned great, so for a long time it was my goto film for free hand shooting from fall to spring. I easily handled pushing to EI1600, too.

    I did encounter some issues with this strategy, though: when it's darker, contrast is either very low and dull, or very high and can't easily be fixed with on camera flash. Also, the color temperature of light was anything but 5500K, and the resulting images had such a strong color cast that not even hybrid processing could fix it.

    As a result, I still shoot slide film when light is good, but as soon as I need ISO200 or more, it's negative film for me, mostly Portra 400 and Superia X-Tra 400/800.

    People in business say: "a market without competition isn't", and the sad demise of Provia 400X seems to confirm that. I still commend Fuji for bringing this great film to market, and will likely throw a stash of it into my (already overloaded) freezer.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  10. #40
    TheToadMen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayonline_nz View Post
    Over here in New Zealand they are asking for $32US for a roll of any slides so it's not helping. Maybe if they rip people off even for few customers maybe they make more profit than selling more at a lower price. I import film like many here but I also export to the USA for development. But checked online, $16US for a roll of Provia 400X is getting expensive even by USA standards.
    I can still get a box with 5 roll films 120 Provia 400 for EURO 33 (about USD 45 ??) overhere in Europe. That would be USD 9 a piece including VAT.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Shipping to New Zealand from The Netherlands would be USD 35 insured, max. 2 kilogram. If I would send you 5 boxes, that would be 5x45 + 33 = 258 (plus import duties if applied in NZ).
    That would be about USD 10 per film. So asking USD 33 for one single roll?

    (I'm going to order myself a nice stash shortly and would be willing to send some to you at no extra charges ...)
    Last edited by TheToadMen; 07-21-2013 at 08:08 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Have fun and catch that light beam!"
    Bert from Holland
    my blog: http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl
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    * I'm an analogue enthusiast, trying not to fall into the digital abyss.
    * My favorite cameras: Mamiya C330f, Nikon S2, Hasselblad SWC, Leica SL, Leica M7, Russian FKD 18x24, Bronica SQ-B and RF645, Rolleiflex T, Nikon F4s, Olympus Pen FT, Agfa Clack and my pinhole cameras.

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