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  1. #31
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    I don't know about old/expired film, but I can mention something odd I saw last week.
    Michaels Cameras in Melbourne was unloading two large cardboard boxes of E100VS film into their shop floor fridge last Wednesday. I was examining a Holga and a Diana on the shelf next to the fridge and observed the guy cutting open the box. During lunch, I felt that it was odd to be seeing a film that I thought was discontinued (correct me if I'm wrong on this). These were two large boxes, all pro-packs being loaded in. It's either old/expired or new/uncirculated. I'll have a closer look when I return this week.
    “The photographer must determine how he wants the finished print to look before he exposes the negative.
    Before releasing the shutter, he must seek 'the flame of recognition,' a sense that the picture would reveal
    the greater mystery of things...more clearly than the eyes see."
    ~Edward Weston, 1922.

  2. #32
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    Hi Matt, seems that we are saying the same thing? I said the Kodak AU is its own entity (which you are saying is a network of further third parties). So if there is a QC issue in AU, and the OP received apology and resolution from Kodak AU, I advocated that the OP contact Kodak Global, instead of merely posting such issue on an Internet forum. All that does is cause come-out-of-the-wood-work discussions about how "Kodak wronged me too".....

    I am saying OP contact Kodak AU (which was done to resolution), and contact Kodak Global re these issues in AU. Then and only then, should one get a cold shoulder, take-it-to-the-net.....

    I think we agree this is an issue Kodak Global should be concerned with, regardless if there are 2,3,4 or 10,000 agents between the OP placing his order and the ultimate responsible party....

    I really don't care if there are middle-layer folks in the process, Kodak AU and by extension Kodak Global put their name on the box and are ultimately the responsible parties...

    Are you saying that since Kodak AU has many layers between them and the customer that they are somehow less responsible? They are responsible for the whole life cycle, regardless if they've more "middle layer" than say Kodak US has?
    Andy:

    Each of the Kodak subsidiaries are independent. They happen to be owned by the bankrupt Eastman Kodak (and therefore must show somewhere as an asset on Eastman Kodak's balance sheet) but as independent entities they bear the brunt of problems in their supply chain, and enjoy the profits that might arise out of that supply chain.

    The problem is that Stephen could not have bought that out-dated material from Kodak AU - only from a distributor. That distributor bought it from Kodak AU (or possibly another distributor). Strictly speaking, Kodak AU probably doesn't have any contractual relationship with Stephen's business, and so would not be legally responsible for the distributor's actions.

    To approach it that way would however be disastrous for Kodak AU. So they made sure the situation was fixed, but the chain of supply means that problems like this are much more likely to occur.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  3. #33
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    I don't know about old/expired film, but I can mention something odd I saw last week.
    Michaels Cameras in Melbourne was unloading two large cardboard boxes of E100VS film into their shop floor fridge last Wednesday. I was examining a Holga and a Diana on the shelf next to the fridge and observed the guy cutting open the box. During lunch, I felt that it was odd to be seeing a film that I thought was discontinued (correct me if I'm wrong on this). These were two large boxes, all pro-packs being loaded in. It's either old/expired or new/uncirculated. I'll have a closer look when I return this week.
    Gary:

    As far as I can determine, the last batch of Kodak produced slide film hasn't yet been all sold.

    I have Ektachrome 100G in 120 in my freezer that I purchased after the discontinuation was announced that has a 2014 "best before" date - I would expect that the film you saw has a date that is similar.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  4. #34
    zsas's Avatar
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    Hi Matt - I guess at the end of the day Kodak AU and Kodak Global are the bottom line, the customer doesn't need to know all that third party liability business. Though technically you are right, Kodak AU is like a franchisee and therefore if I go into a franchise restaurant and am treated poor, one should contact the owner of the restaurant and the franchisor....same thing here. The shell-game-supply-chain-third-party-arrangements, though I am sure you are correct re the lineage, comes of like you are trying to explain why this could happen, when it really is something not for us to explain but Kodak AU and Kodak Global to explain.....I really don't understand why all this lineage matters. It's their deal (AU/Global) to resolve and explain and not the Internet's....

    I think at the end of the day, we prob both agree Kodak AU and Kodak Global deserve a call/letter....
    Andy

  5. #35
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Andy:

    The distribution chain problems are critical, and the customer does need to worry about it. That is what should be in any letter to Kodak AU.

    Eastman Kodak probably aren't even allowed to do business directly in Australia - they would have to refer the matter to Kodak AU.

    The prices and level of service are being determined by the distributors - not by Kodak AU. Eastman Kodak has even less to say in the matter, and in any event are in bankruptcy.

    From other posts here on APUG, it is clear that users of Kodak and other materials in Australia are paying exorbitant prices - they often can buy at a significant discount if they are willing to pay retail prices elsewhere and incur the shipping and import costs.

    Even users of Ilford materials are having difficulties with distribution. Ilford customers in the UK can apparently buy for less cost Ilford materials that are manufactured in the UK, shipped to North America, sold at retail in the US and then shipped back and imported to the UK by the end user than if they buy them from a UK source.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  6. #36

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    Related or not: Freestyle has short-dated TMX 100 (135 size), and B&H _had_ the same (135-36), latter now "discontinued". I've not seen everything, yet I'd not seen short-dated TMX before from major retailers.

    (Disclosure: I love TMX-135)

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Frizza View Post
    To be fair upon calling Kodak they realizes this and are willing to exchanging the stock, but it does make me wonder whats going on.
    But you decided to open an APUG can of worms anyway by posting a thread about it? Seems kind of a sensationalist move to me, can we please give Kodak a break for once?
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  8. #38
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    But you decided to open an APUG can of worms anyway by posting a thread about it? Seems kind of a sensationalist move to me, can we please give Kodak a break for once?

    That's an interesting statement.
    “The photographer must determine how he wants the finished print to look before he exposes the negative.
    Before releasing the shutter, he must seek 'the flame of recognition,' a sense that the picture would reveal
    the greater mystery of things...more clearly than the eyes see."
    ~Edward Weston, 1922.

  9. #39
    lxdude's Avatar
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    I think it makes sense to change the title to ensure it does not mislead.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #40
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Title updated.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

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