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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    You can avoid that problem if you use a focal plane shutter such as a Graflex Model D or a Speed Graphic.
    Or Sinar Copal shutter...

    The mechanical versions of the Sinar shutters may got up in price, as the parts for the standard shutters get scarce.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    You can avoid that problem if you use a focal plane shutter such as a Graflex Model D or a Speed Graphic.
    Grandagons are tough to use on a Series D.

  3. #13
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    I saw this on LFF and the thread got way crazy lol!

    But, my main response is .... I fail to see how a company that makes high end optics, has trouble designing a (relatively) simple shutter for their own lenses....
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #14
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I saw this on LFF and the thread got way crazy lol!

    But, my main response is .... I fail to see how a company that makes high end optics, has trouble designing a (relatively) simple shutter for their own lenses....
    -) A central shutter is anything but simple. Though with electronics one can do without that timing mechanics.

    -) I doubt there is a market justifying investment in a new shutter.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    -) A central shutter is anything but simple. Though with electronics one can do without that timing mechanics.

    -) I doubt there is a market justifying investment in a new shutter.
    The technology for modern leaf shutters is not exactly new, I can't imagine it being that costly to create one...

    It doesn't have to be faster than 1/500 and there were 1/200 shutters in like the 1930's... And the flash sync is nothing new, my yashica44lm has a flash x-sync that does 1/500 and that's from like the 1950's? Or so...

    So I can't see it being that difficult for them to design one.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    The technology for modern leaf shutters is not exactly new, I can't imagine it being that costly to create one...

    It doesn't have to be faster than 1/500 and there were 1/200 shutters in like the 1930's... And the flash sync is nothing new, my yashica44lm has a flash x-sync that does 1/500 and that's from like the 1950's? Or so...

    So I can't see it being that difficult for them to design one.
    The issue isn't that it would be particularly difficult to design or even manufacture a new mechanical shutter.

    The problem is in tooling up for efficient, reliable, and profitably scaled production, securing the necessary human and institutional knowledge and expertise, and providing for the concomitant support infrastructure that would be necessary.

    For Copal, this was all sunk cost. The marginal costs for them to continue producing their decades old designs would be miniscule compared to the costs of starting with a blank sheet of paper. If Copal could make a profit with #0 shutters selling at retail for ~$100 three or four years ago, they should still be able to make a decent profit with the exact same shutter selling for $300-$400 as they have been for the last couple of years, even in a declining market.

    For them to give up a world-wide market that was theirs exclusively suggests that they just really, really wanted to get out of that particular part of their business altogether, regardless of any profits it was generating.

  7. #17
    AgX
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    Prontor do no longer offer their shutters since 2006, Copal their LF-shutters since 2009.

  8. #18
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    Rollei/DHW and other manufacturers make electronic shutters.

    now, your average joe who buys a $250 lens off ebay might not use their lens enough to justify spending $1200 or so on an electronic shutter+controller(and a shutter for each lens!), but a working professional who is using(and renting their camera to themself on jobs) can easily justify that cost, despite the high cost of buying in.

    I do agree, however, that a "simple" electronic shutter could be produced, but remember this: YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!
    If you want it "cheap", you probably won't have the best quality, and post-purchase support/repair ability. If you want those things(or a person on an end of a telephone to speak too), you'll need to be willing to spend more $$$.

    I've assisted a number of architectural photographers(BIG LF users pre-digital and the move to smaller formats, in general) and asked them about their servicing/maintenance of their equipment. Most would use their equipment enough to never really justify getting a service done, unless something showed up as being "wrong"... Just like exercising your body, exercising a lens can help keep you "in shape". If you don't work yourself out(or your shutter), you'll get slow, and eventually stuff up completely.

    Basically "use it or lose it". I'm only using lenses that have Copal 0/1 shutters, but have a few older "parts" lenses that I just keep in the cupboard in case I need to repair something, but so far nothing's needed to be repaired/replaced thus far. But I'm prepared if I do!

    Most amateurs are too fuss-pot about the technical and cosmetic condition of their equipment IMO, especially justifying the small amount of usage they show it.
    Just buy yourself a shutter tester, test your lenses 1x/mo and write down any adjustments to speed so you know what you're at. IME, a CLA isn't needed unless a shutter is stuffed up completely, or some simple "exercise" isn't going to free things up prior to use.

    -Dan

  9. #19
    AgX
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    Rollei electronic shutter in sizes 0 and 1:

    http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/bel...icshutter.html

    the proprietory control unit:

    http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/bel...control-s.html

  10. #20

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    So when exactly did copal case their shutter production? And what am I left with if I wish to buy a brand new 4x5 macro lens in a year or two?

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