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  1. #51
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    A master roll each month, Roger. Each and every one of us. And if any one of us can't hold that pace, misses just one month, then all the layoffs, the failed business models, the stock collapse, the bankruptcies, the patent debacle, the infrastructure demolitions, all of it, it's all our fault. Like it or lump it...



    Ken


    What we really need isn't so much to each shoot more film, as most of the folks on here are probably die hard film hobbyists who buy all their circumstances allow, as to expand the base of users.

    Get out there on your soapbox and preach the book of film, people! (Said only partially in jest.)

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, if the products are cancelled, then it is hardly fair to call him Chicken Little. He just reported a fact. Just as I can say that the analog industry is taking a real hit right now.

    BTW, a week or so ago, Kodak laid off about 30 people in the film plant here due to decreased demand!

    PE
    But he seems to report disaster constantly with such relish .
    Ben

  3. #53
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Good points. Ilford benefits from being much more right-sized for the shrunken market and focused on monochrome only, but they also benefit from being very transparent and accessible. We asked for cool tone developer and a true IR film and Simon took it to the board and reported back. He had to report back "we can't do it, the market isn't big enough" but he heard our requests, took them up the line, and came back with a straight answer that didn't change three times in the next six months.
    And just to balance that ledger a little bit, we also asked for the return of postcard paper...



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  4. #54
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    But he seems to report disaster constantly with such relish .
    Yes, and we end up with such fun threads as this one!

    PE

  5. #55
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    I'm buying, and shooting, way more than I have time to process. I have a backlog of 29 rolls, yes twenty-nine rolls, of black and white to develop, 22 in 120 and 7 in 35mm, plus maybe a half dozen sheets. And I have 12 rolls of color sitting here on my desk now ready to pack up and ship to Dwayne's. Exactly how much more should I buy? I'm a hobbiest. I shoot what I can afford and have time for (and way more than I actually have time to develop and print!)
    Ok, ok. You're right. Many of us here buy plenty. I should have said not ENOUGH people out there like us.

    BTW, here's my backlog stash. Each 4x5 holder with two negs, over 40 35mm rolls and almost twenty 120 rolls awaiting development. I usually develop 3-4 rolls a weekend. Problem is I often shoot 4-6 rolls! This weekend included. And Sunday is NOT over yet either!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

    Richard S.
    Albany, CA (San Francisco bay area)

    My Flickr River of photographs
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  6. #56
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Now, regarding sheet films.

    The bulk of Kodak film is coated on 5 mil or thinner support. This is for the Motion Picture, 35mm and 120 markets. The 4x5 film is on special order 7 mil support. This is what drives up the costs, as I suspect that Ilford's product mix is more even and thus can be costed out more evenly.

    There are other factors in this as well such as the very low demand for sheet film (which may rise as more people dig out their LF cameras and make plates).

    BUT, remember again that there are about 70,000 members here, but only a small fraction ever post or even use film. I would estimate about 10 - 20% actually use film, or perhaps less. And that usage cannot support three volume manufacturers.

    As for business models, for those who missed this, in 2005, when Ilford faltered, Agfa failed and EK left the paper busienss, the models said there would be a 35% drop in film sales in 1 year. Well, that took place in 1 quarter and did a LOT of damage to all of the companies making film and paper. And look! Where is EFKE today? It was ideally suited to small custom runs, but could not make a profit, not even enough to keep the machines running or the buildings in suitable repair.

    PE

  7. #57
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Efke also suffered from a peculiar catch 22 in not selling enough to keep repairs up or manage good QC and bad QC severely impacted their sales, at least to judge from what I read here and on LFPF.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #58
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Sintchak (rich815) View Post
    Ok, ok. You're right. Many of us here buy plenty. I should have said not ENOUGH people out there like us.

    BTW, here's my backlog stash. Each 4x5 holder with two negs, over 40 35mm rolls and almost twenty 120 rolls awaiting development. I usually develop 3-4 rolls a weekend. Problem is I often shoot 4-6 rolls! This weekend included. And Sunday is NOT over yet either!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	photo (18).JPG 
Views:	53 
Size:	363.9 KB 
ID:	83996
    Ok, you have me beat! And if I developed even two rolls a weekend I'd not have a backlog. And I confess the only reason I have so much color awaiting a trip to Dwyane's is that my wife and I spent an entire week doing Mardis Gras in New Orleans. Partly that's just such a colorful place and set of events it called for color, but I also knew I'd never get around to processing it all if I shot much black and white! I did shoot some 645 Tri-X in St. Louis cemetery #1 though.

  9. #59
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Now, regarding sheet films.

    The bulk of Kodak film is coated on 5 mil or thinner support. This is for the Motion Picture, 35mm and 120 markets. The 4x5 film is on special order 7 mil support. This is what drives up the costs, as I suspect that Ilford's product mix is more even and thus can be costed out more evenly.

    There are other factors in this as well such as the very low demand for sheet film (which may rise as more people dig out their LF cameras and make plates).

    B

    PE
    This says to me that if Kodak Alaris were to start looking to re-start another (smaller) film coating line, the sheet film might be a good place to start.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  10. #60
    erikg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    A master roll each month, Roger. Each and every one of us. And if any one of us can't hold that pace, misses just one month, then all the layoffs, the failed business models, the stock collapse, the bankruptcies, the patent debacle, the infrastructure demolitions, all of it, it's all our fault. Like it or lump it...



    Ken
    Damn! Never has my picture taking seemed so important. I don't think I can handle the pressure.



 

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