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  1. #101
    Hatchetman's Avatar
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    I have kind of an interesting job which gives me a lot of access to senior execs at mid-market companies. Many times I'll ask about one of their product lines and I'll hear..."oh, it doesn't make us any money. It keeps the customer happy and it keeps them from going to one of our competitors." I've heard that same line many many times.

  2. #102
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    We do stuff like that in my business. We have high-margin products and low-margin products, and the low-margin stuff is kept around precisely for the reason you state: We don't want a competitor getting in the door at one of our customers.

    But I don't really see that applying here. What high-margin sales would KA be protecting by selling photographic film at low/no margins? The logic of selling the low margin stuff to protect accounts really only applies when selling to businesses.

    But to Stone's point, I think there is some merit to what he is saying. For Kodak branded film to have a future, they need to maintain the market presence at the "top". I can see that having some relevance. If there is a progression of the future film customer (maybe its a re-entry film shooter starting in 35mm, then going to MF, then going to LF), you will only get them at the start if they see an unbroken path to the top.

    I guess I just contradicted myself. Not the first time.
    I shoot digital when I have to (most of those shots end up here) and film (occasionally one of those shots ends up here) when I want to.

  3. #103

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    No business has ever succeeded by loosing money on a product and trying to make it up on volume. First, KA has to figure out how to make a profit; perhaps then then can offer other items.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof_Pixel View Post
    No business has ever succeeded by loosing money on a product and trying to make it up on volume. First, KA has to figure out how to make a profit; perhaps then then can offer other items.
    Well for one trim the color product line to just Portra, and sell the non-passable runs as "Consumer Portra" instead of making a separate batch...

    And cut one of the 400 speed lines...

    Carrying two 400 (and one 320) speeds is a lot...
    This might mean killing TX and TXP and just keeping TMY-2.

    Get rid of TMX, there's enough competition from other 100 speeds and seeing that alternative processes are becoming more popular, the imitations of TMX will limit many.

    This gives them the strongest films and gives them the ability to make bigger runs that they need to with their larger machine.

    But! They need to communicate that with the customers instead of just doing it with no explanation or people will become afraid and flight will happen...
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  5. #105

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    maybe they just need to market what they have
    and hope when consumers buy film they
    can figure out how to get it processed
    seeing there are fewer labs left, worldwide
    and if they want to sell more film they need to
    deal with part b ( processing ) not only part a ( film )

    kodak was built not only as a manufacturer but as
    a photofinisher ... "you push the button we'll do the rest"
    since they are no longer the "we" they need to find someone who is..
    Last edited by jnanian; 04-11-2014 at 07:16 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #106
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof_Pixel View Post
    No business has ever succeeded by loosing money on a product and trying to make it up on volume. First, KA has to figure out how to make a profit; perhaps then then can offer other items.
    Well, I know of a business on the market for 5 years now, cranking up their annual revenue up to 2 Billion Euro, but still not making profit. But consolidating their market position.

    In the photochemical world Agfa did lose money with their cameraworks for about two decades, but still it was considered necessary for several reasons, untill finally manufacture was cancelled and the plant closed

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatchetman View Post
    I have kind of an interesting job which gives me a lot of access to senior execs at mid-market companies. Many times I'll ask about one of their product lines and I'll hear..."oh, it doesn't make us any money. It keeps the customer happy and it keeps them from going to one of our competitors." I've heard that same line many many times.
    You hang out with some pretty smart people. Giving up on your low margin lines is a prescription for disaster. Once you do that your compeitor then moves up into the higher margin line and makes even higher profit margins than they did in the market you gave up on. Keep giving up - your margins skyrocket but you make less and less money. This happened over and over to the US auto industry as first the Germans, then the Japanese, then the Koreans broke into the bottom of the market and then moved up.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  8. #108
    michaelbsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    But! They need to communicate that with the customers instead of just doing it with no explanation or people will become afraid and flight will happen...

    This is the most important.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  9. #109
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    That's right.

    Somehow, US corporations always managed to create the impression that they were all about the board room and not the product. That may not be entirely fair, but I think there is something to it.

    For example, compare GM to Volkswagen. Don't you get the impression that the Volkswagen people are truly "car guys" at heart, while the impression of the GM guys is that they are bean counters? Fair or not, that's how its long seemed to me.

    Taking this thread and distilling it down, it seems like a lot of people are really asking KA to affirm that they are truly "film guys"...guys who love film, believe in it, and are committed to it as a medium. Ilford has created that image. To the extent they ever really get off the ground, Ferrania has created it too. KA does not have that at present.
    I shoot digital when I have to (most of those shots end up here) and film (occasionally one of those shots ends up here) when I want to.

  10. #110

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    Gerbershagen only became Chief Executive Officer of Kodak Alaris Holdings Limited, effective Tuesday, April 1, 2014. Let's cut him some slack.

    I highly recommend the new 11 Apr 14 interview from the Rochester Business Journal I mentioned in another thread http://rbj.net/article.asp?aID=207020



 

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