Rumor so far.... Kodak is killing off all B+W paper products.

[Flotsam]

Why is this so hard for people to grasp???
So Kodak could make $1 on a $55 box of Polymax?

If Kodak is making a buck a box I agree, they are too stupid to exist.
Take 'em away Darwin... Book 'em, incompetence One.
Best of luck in the digital shark pool.

[Jim Chinn]

My interests in ULF is moving more towards alternative, plt/pld, collodion, kallitype etc. I will have to think long and hard about making a sizable AZO purchase of say 10 boxes of 20x24. I would like to have some on hand that might fit certain subject matter perfectly, but I can go with the flow. If it goes away next year I'll find something just as appealing but with different qualities.

At the recent workshop held by Lee C. in Texas, Les Mclean showed prints on Ilford MGIV warmtone split toned in selenium and gold. They were spectacular in person. That looks like an avenue to explore for contact printing ULF negs.

And like I have said before, i think we are really just scrathing the surface on the possibilities of coating papers and custom emulsions.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'm quite pleased with Efke/Classic/Cachet/Maco Expo RF in amidol for enlargements. When there's no more Azo, I'll probably take up pt/pd or albumen, unless one of the smaller manufacturers is making a decent chloride paper, and if they are, maybe they should try to replicate Haloid Industro rather than Azo.

[c6h6o3]

Haloid Industro rather than Azo.

Is there any of it around? If they had some it would certainly be easier to duplicate.

[michaelsalomon]

its gonna get a whole lot worse before it gets better...

[David A. Goldfarb]

Aaron Van de Sande bought a cache of Haloid Industro, made a few beautiful prints, and decided he needed to set aside 8x10" for a while and sold it. Maybe if he has a record of the purchaser we could track it down.

[photobackpacker]

its gonna get a whole lot worse before it gets better...

Hi Mike:

Yesterday was, for many of us, a gut-wrenching day. The phrase "Denial is not a river in Egypt." took on a new dimension.

After sleeping on it, I have a slightly different take. We will see the hole left by Kodak filled by a new player (or players.) We will have lost a disinterested, unresponsive and inwardly-focused "partner" and will gain one who is in the business because of their love on the medium. One who is willing to listen and will look for ways to be responsive. It may take a while - then again, it may not.

This may be Ilford. Smart money would approach Kodak and buy the paper interests with the goal of scaling it down to profitability. I don't imagine Ilford is in a position to do this - but imagine the strength if they could add AZO and Polymax to their line. My money is on a group of private investors who understand the photo-media process.

Kodak's move does not diminish us. What we do and what we produce just became that much more rare and valuable.

[Jim Chinn]

I would not hold out much hope about Kodak selling any of its proprietary formulas or product lines. Once Kodak completely seprates itself from film, film cameras and film become the enemy. Once they are totally digital every film camera sale, every wet print made at home and every roll of film sold regardless of mfg takes away potential revenue. Any company that is concentrating on digital wants to see the total extinction of film and film cameras.

The timing of things such as this announcement are usually tied to upcoming earnings reports (to help cushion fallout from a bad report) or to demonstrate that a new CEO is aggresive in his strategic outlook.

I think one reason we have not read about discontinuing of film is that they need to save that announcement for when they need to pump up the stock price.
Cutting jobs, closing factories and dropping marginal product lines is music to the ears of the institutional investors who probably control most Kodak stock in various mutual funds and large holding companies.

[jovo]

I would not hold out much hope about Kodak selling any of its proprietary formulas. Once Kodak completely seprates itself from film, film cameras and film processing becomes the enemy. Once they are totally digital every film camera sale, every wet print made at home and every roll of film regardless of mfg takes away potential revenue. Any company that is concentrating on digital wants to see the total extinction of film and film cameras.
.

I disagree. If (and of course they do) their fomulae have monetary value, they'll absolutely sell them. It would be irresponsible not to. There is a legal compulsion to generate the greatest return to investors as a condition of incorporation as a publically traded company. Besides...since Kodak has determined that the/their future is digital...what difference would the miniscule fine art black and white printing paper market make to them anyhow? Enemy?... Hardly.

(On the other hand, everything I just said makes sense, at least to me. So to assume that logic will rule the corporate mind requires an enormous leap of faith and a large dose of naivete. I could be quite wrong ;-))

[Jim Chinn]

(On the other hand, everything I just said makes sense, at least to me. So to assume that logic will rule the corporate mind requires an enormous leap of faith and a large dose of naivete. I could be quite wrong ;-))

I agree that everything you said makes perfect sense. however, logic and common sense are rare commodities in the board rooms of American corproations these days.


I don't recall who it was last nite in the chat room, but they related a story that when Kodak bought GAF, they destroyed the GAF coating line so it could not be re-sold and become competition. So I don't hold out to much hope that Kodak would ever sell facilities, formulas or machines to anyone. The only thing they might do is move film production overseas where wages are cheap and environmental regulations are non-existent and sell some emulsions under a different brand.

As far as digital companies are concerned, they would like everyone who shoots B&W film to buy a digtial camera and convert the files to B&W in photoshop, use their printers, their inks and their inkjet papers.

I suppose there may be a price at which Kodak might sell its formulas. I doubt anyone can pay it. Except for AZO which is unique, no current mfg would buy any Kodak formula. With Kodak gone your market share increases without spending a dime.

If people like Kodak products then buy a freezer and fill it up. I decided about 4 years ago that Kodak had no interest in supporting traditional photography as they had already begun to eliminate papers and films.
Their remaining film and paper are still outstanding. But I switched all my film and paper (with the exception of AZO) away from Kodak a couple of years ago.