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Thread: More Kodak

  1. #21
    mmcclellan's Avatar
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    Ian,

    You really are offensive. Still smarting from losing all your colonies? First the Americas? Then Ireland? Then India and half of Africa? Soon Northern Ireland? Maybe Scotland if Sean Connery has his way?

    Cool it with the political crap.
    Michael McClellan
    Documentary Photographer
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    http://www.MichaelMcClellan.com

  2. #22

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    Ian,

    Who do you think you are? Give it a rest.
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

  3. #23
    esanford's Avatar
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    Let's get back on point here... Kodak was a film company. George Eastman became one of the richest men of his time because he figured out that selling film to the everyday individual would bring he and his company huge sales and profits... He was a high tech marketing wizard at the turn of the century. I also visited the Eastman house year before last, and one of the points they make during the tour was that Eastman tried very hard to sell his roll film to professionals (those doing glass plate, albumen etc...); they rejected the product because they felt that it was insufficient to meet professional applications. So, Eastman marketed to consumers in the same way that Henry Ford marketed the model T, and the company grew tremendously. Eastman was the Bill Gates of his time. The professional and advanced amateur market has never been a major revenue driver for Kodak.... just pull up their sales history and balance sheets.

    Now comes digital... The same forces that pushed roll film in the late 1800s to early 1900s is what's creating the digital revolution... Consumers want it for ease of use, and unfortunately for photographers like us, the consumer market is where the dollars are (2/3s of GDP is consumer spending... a similar percentage applies globally). The only mistake that Kodak made is that the company took too long to understand this. The only way Kodak will survive is to cut costs in the areas where there are low sales volumes (i.e. our stuff), and to develop new products in the booming digital market. We don't like it, but it is a business fact!!! Because George Eastman was such a visionary and thinker both from an artistic standpoint as well as a marketing and business standpoint, he would have gotten to digital sooner. So, if he is turning over in his grave, it is because those who now run his company couldn't see the market forces on the horizon. This is all about business; I am sure that there will always be boutique companies who will develop "our stuff"; however it won't be kodak, and remember, Ilford is not on firm financial ground even as we speak.... Fuji will be digital as well... plain and simple....
    Often wrong, but never in doubt!

  4. #24

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    I have to agree, an urban legend that was going around a couple of years ago is that in the mid 90's Polaroid had a chance to buy Adobe to get a foothold in the digital market, but Polaroid passed and 10 years later it is a shadow of itself. I just hope that the world wide analog market will be large enough to keep one or two film and paper manufactures in business

  5. #25
    raucousimages's Avatar
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    Last weekend I saw a photo mag (dont remember which one) doing a review of camera phones like this was serious photographic equiptment. It looks like kodak wants to make us go that way by teaching our children that a phonecam is the only camera you need (see their new tv ad).
    DIGITAL IS FOR THOSE AFRAID OF THE DARK.

  6. #26
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esanford
    Let's get back on point here... Kodak was a film company....
    Yes, companies change and evolve over time, otherwise they cease to exist. Sometimes it is a good change, sometimes not. For example, Toyota started out in business making sewing machines and Honda made piston rings (before they made motorcycles), BMW made airplanes.

    One of the good things I see is the rise of companies that produce products like Efke, Kentmere, etc. And I don't see Fuji abandoning Velvia anytime soon (in fact they have two more Velvia like films that are only sold in Japan).
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  7. #27
    esanford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    Yes, companies change and evolve over time, otherwise they cease to exist. Sometimes it is a good change, sometimes not. For example, Toyota started out in business making sewing machines and Honda made piston rings (before they made motorcycles), BMW made airplanes.

    One of the good things I see is the rise of companies that produce products like Efke, Kentmere, etc. And I don't see Fuji abandoning Velvia anytime soon (in fact they have two more Velvia like films that are only sold in Japan).
    I agree wholeheartedly with your point! We as serious photographic professionals, artists, hobbyists, etc... find it very difficult to stomach things like Kodak ceasing to make the products that we've grown to depend upon... Unfortunately, the world changes... In business like nature, the change can be brutal and unforgiving... But, you know what they say, big trees fall and rot in the forest so little trees can grow. Fuji, Efke, and Kentmere have a unique opportunity to take up the space that Kodak is vacating....
    Often wrong, but never in doubt!

  8. #28
    Brac's Avatar
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    Amongst the wanderings in this thread is the again repeated claim that Ilford make Fuji's black & white films. I think it's general knowledge that Ilford certainly provide the emulsion for Fuji's chromogenic film which is very similar to XP2 Super and maybe they actually manufacture it in the UK too. But as to the non-chromogenic films I'm not convinced. The one I'm most familiar with, Neopan 400, which I've used off and on since the late 1980's is nothing like any Ilford film. Also its plastic canister is a Fuji type one and the box states made in Japan. Fuji also made (and maybe still do) an instant pack film in black & white & I've never seen it suggested that Ilford manufacture instant films. I drop this in because it demonstrates that Fuji have the technology & knowledge to manufacture black & white materials themselves.

  9. #29
    arigram's Avatar
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    From one of our news agents under a photograph:
    "A neglected vending machine for Kodak film in Beijing reflects the diminished prospects for the US photography giant which is cutting jobs in China as well as USA and Canada, Friday 26 August 2005. Kodak invested heavily in China buying interests in Chinese film manufacturers and establishing a chain of more than 5000 minilabs around the country but is now suffering here as elsewhere as consumers choose digital cameras in preference to silver based film technology. As many as 450 jobs in Xiamen are to be cut. EPA/Adrian Bradshaw"
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  10. #30
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Todays Rochester newspaper headlined and detailed that story.

    You know, it seems to me that Kodak is not abandoning conventional and becoming a digital company, but rather that the customers are abandoning conventional and forcing Kodak into becoming predominantly a digital company. To give them some credit, Kodak tried to stay as much in conventional photography as possible, but were unable to maintain this thrust due to market forces.

    Conventional sales have fallen over 30% within a year for Kodak. Just think what a blow this is to Ilford, Agfa, Ferrania and Fuji. They are all smaller than Kodak in market share. They are in a struggle for their lives, and only Fuji is really 'going digital' to any extent. For Ilford, a drop of 30% in the overall market was catastrophic, as the change was mostly in B&W products followed by Transparency films.

    PE

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