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  1. #1
    roteague's Avatar
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    Replacement for Kodak Technical Pan?

    Found this article on About.com titled "Film Lives".

    http://photography.about.com/b/a/184206.htm
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    Found this article on About.com titled "Film Lives".

    http://photography.about.com/b/a/184206.htm
    Here is an earlier APUG thread on this topic:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/showthrea...light=bluefire

    It seems that Bluefire is an Efke film. See John's response (J&C Photo).
    Tom Hoskinson
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  3. #3
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
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    I don't see anything there suggesting Bluefire Police is an Efke film. Rather, Jon is saying that Maco TP64 is not the same as Efke 50.

    My understanding has been that Bluefire Police is Agfa Copex Rapid, the same emulsion (only in 16 mm or 35 mm roll form) as Gigabitfilm, but with a different developer recommendation to allow EI 80 with good tonality.
    Photography has always fascinated me -- as a child, simply for the magic of capturing an image onto glossy paper with a little box, but as an adult because of the unique juxtaposition of science and art -- the physics of optics, the mechanics of the camera, the chemistry of film and developer, alongside the art in seeing, composing, exposing, processing and printing.

  4. #4
    titrisol's Avatar
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    Gigabit is claimed to be a propietary emulsion, not Copex Rapid.
    I think Efke 25 can be an excellent substitue to TchPan.
    Mama took my APX away.....

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by titrisol
    Gigabit is claimed to be a propietary emulsion, not Copex Rapid.
    I think Efke 25 can be an excellent substitue to TchPan.

    Gigabit, our Copex Rapid and the Bluefire are all Copex microfilms. We used to carry Gigabit but dropped it because we could sell Copex and the superior Spur developer cheaper than the Gigabit kit. We also sell Kodak imagelink microfilm and Spur developer for the same purposes.

    For 99 percent of the shooting anyone is going to do and with the cost of the microfilms I would agree that a film like Efke 25 is the better choice.
    Last edited by jandc; 07-26-2005 at 03:29 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    www.jandcphoto.com

  6. #6
    edz
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandc
    Gigabit, our Copex Rapid and the Bluefire are all Copex microfilms.
    But not, I think, the same. Foy, if I recall correctly, sourced the film for his "Bluefire" from Tura (as Turapan microfilm) since Agfa did not want to sell to him in the small volumes he wanted. Ludwig and Schain/8x11film.com source their film from Agfa-Gevaert from fresh stocks of Copex-Rapid-AHU, Ludwig (Gigabit) has them "enhanced" with frame numbers and packaged in Southern Europe. Schain's packaging is done in Germany (as a hint, his current space is rented from Tura). Tura, I've heard, has a large stockpile of the older (long out of production) Copex emulusion and its very cheap--- but who knows for how long as Tura has filed for protection from their creditors. I have some of what I think is the same emulusion and its, for the application, not as good. For high contrast, however, its got an even higher resolution(!).

    We used to carry Gigabit but dropped it because we could sell Copex and Spur developer cheaper than the Gigabit kit.
    How about 'cause the Gigabit kit did not work as well as Nanospeed. Gigabit had some quality problems, the developer turns bad very quickly and getting good results can be tricky--- why there was a lot of disappointment with the product. The Nanospeed developer, by contrast (one needs to recall that Schain and Ludwig were partners on the original Gigabit), has addressed many of these shortcommings and has a significantly larger tolerance to processing.


    For 99 percent of the shooting anyone is going to do and with the cost of the microfilms I would agree that a film like Efke 25 is the better choice.
    A better choice for what? If its about making absurdly large enlargements using miniature (24x36mm and smaller) gauge films then there is nothing close to these microfilms. If its about fine grain and sharpeness then even TMAX-100 blasts the Efke-25 out of the water. The Efke-25 is NOT Agfapan-25. Agfapan-25 was dropped since (and I did like it and continue to use it in my MINOX) its obsolete. Microfilms perform better, T-grain films like TMax, Delta-100, Acros-100 are finer grained and offer many times the speed etc.
    Edward C. Zimmermann
    BSn R&D // http://www.nonmonotonic.net

  7. #7

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    Ed,

    Putting aside the ax you are so pathetically trying to grind it must be hard on you being the keeper of all knowledge photographic. Never being wrong about anything must also be a tough thing to keep up. Congratulations, you're a true legend in your own mind.

    But something good did come of this, my first opportunity to use the ignore feature. Thanks.
    www.jandcphoto.com

  8. #8
    titrisol's Avatar
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    I think you are mistaken.
    Efke 25 is a wonderful film, fine grain, nice tonality, good sharpness.

    IMHO Tmax does not have the same qualities. Delta100 and Across while wonderful films they are do not have the same tonal range than EFKE 25.... to each his/her own though



    Quote Originally Posted by edz
    A better choice for what? If its about making absurdly large enlargements using miniature (24x36mm and smaller) gauge films then there is nothing close to these microfilms. If its about fine grain and sharpeness then even TMAX-100 blasts the Efke-25 out of the water. The Efke-25 is NOT Agfapan-25. Agfapan-25 was dropped since (and I did like it and continue to use it in my MINOX) its obsolete. Microfilms perform better, T-grain films like TMax, Delta-100, Acros-100 are finer grained and offer many times the speed etc.
    Mama took my APX away.....

  9. #9
    edz
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    Quote Originally Posted by titrisol
    I think you are mistaken.
    Efke 25 is a wonderful film, fine grain, nice tonality, good sharpness.
    That's NOT the point nor the question (perhaps, at best, an answer to some other question): What is a replacement for Technical Pan?

    If its for the extended red? Nope. Here I'd point people to something like Kodak HawkEye. Excellent high resolution film with extended red sensitivity.

    If its for the resolution and sharpeness? That's where Copex comes in. Technical Pan is slightly smaller in grain but less sharp.

    If its for tonality? We talking about Technical Pan are we not?

    Technical Pan was a "technical" film for things like photo-micrography. It was based upon their "ancient" Solar Flare Patrol Film SO-392 and replaced also their high contrast copy materials. It was available in all kinds of formats INCLUDING glass plates!

    Kodak is not completely out of that business as their EM films are still available. Kodak Electron Image Film SO-163 and Electron Microscopy Film 4489 still have some advantages over the silicon sensors which have widely replaced film.

    Technical Pan was pretty much obsolete stuff. The photomicrography people have moved on and found better, the astrophotography people have moved over to a whole new generation of red sensitive digital capture chips and .... AND sales were sluggish.. about the only time it sold well in the past 10 years was upon the announcement of its EOL (End of Life)..
    Edward C. Zimmermann
    BSn R&D // http://www.nonmonotonic.net

  10. #10
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Edward C. Zimmermann

    Would you please reply to the points in Titrisol's post, instead of going off at a tangent.

    You state that EFKE 25 is less sharp and is grainier than Tmax100. I use both films and it's not the case.

    Yes I prefered AP25 (a few rolls left) and APX25 (20 or 30 rolls left) but the EFKE 25 is a superbly sharp extremely fine grain film.

    Ian

    Quote Originally Posted by edz
    That's NOT the point nor the question
    Originally Posted by titrisol
    I think you are mistaken.
    Efke 25 is a wonderful film, fine grain, nice tonality, good sharpness.
    Last edited by Ian Grant; 07-26-2005 at 04:12 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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