Yes, it's called 'advertisement' and 'promotion'! It had nothing to do with being nice or supporting the film community...
Originally Posted by seadrive
They are doing what the bean counters tell them... Two years ago, their classic, core film division was their only one to make a profit! They use those profits to buy other companies and invest deeply into digi... They no longer do anything to support film users and they don't care. They are a corporation and have no feelings for users. I know some employees that are just sickened by kodaks actions of late. Nothing they can do either, except file for unemployment for the most part.
These supposed "loses" in the film industry are on paper, against projected earnings. Against these projected earnings, a posted loss becomes a tax deduction. It coporate America at work...
I too will be deeply upset when Plus-X and Tri-X is no longer made. But kodak will soon be a simple distributor of cheap Asian digi garbage (not a knock on Asia by the way).
They owe us nothing. They are a corporation... We owe them nothing. They are a corporation... What they did in the past was essentially a different company. It's gone now. It could be reborn, but I wouldn't hold my breath...
I just can't see gettin upset over a corporation doing what corporations do, I am sorry for those who have lost jobs, but going beyond that, I really can't say much more, As Rich said, I don't owe them anything, and they don't owe me anything, they have to do what they feel is best for their stockholders, although, I think they are making a mistake, that does not change the fact, I have to find something to shoot on, they are doing what large corperations do, plain and simple, that is the way of business in the US..
They can keep it.
Originally Posted by raucousimages
The destination is important, but so is the journey
KEEP IT DIGITAL, KEEP IT KODAK. Keep it away from me!
I actually think this could work. I know my wife would like if we had a cell phone.
Originally Posted by Aggie
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RichSBV wrote above: "What they did in the past was essentially a different company. It's gone now. It could be reborn, but I wouldn't hold my breath..."
I disagree. Kodak is doing today what it has done since its inception in the 1800s. The products are different, but the corporate philosophy is the same.
I begin by refereing you to two books on business: "Good to Great" and "Built to Last". Both books are excellent, and I recommend them to all, even if you have only a passing interest in business. The underlying principals apply to anyone who wants to do the best work possible--or in my case, to produce the best photographs possible.
The books examine a number of great corporations and examine the common elements which made them great. Kodak was not one of the companies.
One of the key concepts is for a business to follow its core philosophy. The books tack companies that have followed their cores--some for well over a hundred years.
Last week I was reading a history of photography, and it dawned on me what Kodak's core philosophy has been since at least the introduction of the Kodak Brownie: "Photography should be a democratic process, open to all, and as easy for the masses to pursue as possible." After all, the motto for the
brownie was "You press the button, we do the rest."
Kodak almost single-handedly created the consumer photography market and it has been the core of its business for over a hundred years. Yes, it has supported fine are photography, but mainly as a way to increase awareness of its products among the masses, not out of some burning desire to promote photography as Art. Remember, photography as Art wasn't even an issue when Kodak was formed.
Kodak's actions today seem to be in line with their core. The masses are moving to digital. Kodak want's to provide photographic supplies to the multitudes. So, Kodak moves to digital.
Allen... Pulling that one single line out of context makes it seem we dissagree, but it was taken out of context and I don't see how we dissagree??? The conversation, or reply to a post was about kodak's contribution to photography and who owes who what. Has nothing to do with coporate philosophy or direction. And it is still true that the company that founded photography as we know it, and supported that end, is now gone. None of those people are still in charge, most of them not even living. It's a different company...
I feel that I have gone though all of the stage of grief.
1st denial: Kodak will stay as long as they make a profit, they have a historical obligation, its all just rumors.
2nd bargaining: Kodak will move its analog production units to Asia, they will spin off the analog division.
3rd anger: To h## with Kodak who needs them anyway, they cant do this to me, I have been a loyal Kodak user for 40 years (along with Dupont, Defender, GAF, Agfa, and Illford.)
4th depression: What will I do without TriX, Microdol X or HC 110.
5th working though:Better find alternatives.
You have really nailed it... Kodak was always a consumer business... right from the beginning. However, the market changed. Somebody made a comment that film was the only part of Kodak that was making a profit... That comment is very misleading.... Kodak's Consumer Business is the area of their business that drives profitability, but that business is in decline. The Professional Products division (i.e. the part of the company that sells Our stuff) has never been a revenue driver for Kodak; In fact, Professional revenues are just under 15% of Sales and at very low margins because the old products are so expensive to make... That's why they shut down the old line that made TRI-X and Plus-X... It's always been the consumer business that's kept Kodak afloat.... Because they were slow to go digital, their financial strength was completely compromised. The bottom line is that consumers don't want film. They want digital, and there is not enough of folks like us to keep Kodak going. That's why all of these old analog products become expensive to make and that's why Kodak is getting out of the business. The fact that they haven't done it immediately is, to some extent, demonstrative of their loyalty. So guys let's understand business and get the facts straight... As someone said, there will be life after Kodak. But, if there are products that they still have that meets your needs, I would suggest that you place a bulk order. In my case I purchased more than 200 rolls of the old tri-x. I am probably going to buy a case of HC110... I will enjoy using those products long after they are discontinued.
. Kodak is doing today what it has done since its inception in the 1800s. The products are different, but the corporate philosophy is the same.
Last edited by David A. Goldfarb; 08-15-2005 at 03:22 PM. Click to view previous post history.
Reason: Open quote tag.
Often wrong, but never in doubt!
I am not sure we disagree substantially. I very much dislike Kodak's moves away from B&W paper and it's move toward digital.
But, I think we may have a different understanding of what is fundamental to a company. Or, put another way, when does a company change?
If we concentrate on products, then clearly Kodak is a different company today than it was 10, 30, 50 or 100 years ago. Eastman started the company producing dry plate glass negs. It then moved onto roll film and processing the film. It led the way on the introduction of color products. Arguably, Kodak became a "different" company with each move.
If you were saying that Kodak was a film company, now it is not and it never will be again, then we agree.
But, my discussion was pointed not to products, but to the end goal of those products--the "core", or main philosophy of the company. I believe Kodak's main early core was to make photography democratic, i.e. so that everyone could own a camera and take pictures as easily as possible. I see Kodak's recent moves to digital in line with that core value. To me, that is the essence of Kodak. What it has done from the beginning, and what it has done with most major changes in its history. To that extent, Kodak is the same company, or at least it is pursuing the same "core" that it started with.
This discussion reminds me of the question, "Am I the same person I was at age 20?" No, of course not. I am 30 years older and (hopefully) wiser. If I focus on the outward changes, I am quite different. But, I still hold most of the basic values I held at age 20. In my "essence", I am more mature, but I am still the same person.