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  1. #11
    BruceN's Avatar
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    I will admit to having 2 photographic products in this house with yellow labels - Rapid Selenium Toner and Farmers Reducer. As soon as I find good substitutes they'll be gone and I'll be completely "Yellow Free." I don't really have a lot of faith that they will be available for much longer anyway. "Why don't you just buy a digital camera" indeed. With Agfa's current situation, I guess that makes me an Ilford guy all round. I do have 10 bottles of Rodinal on the way, though, so that should last me a little while before I have to start experimenting with R-09 or just stick with ID-11 and DDX.

    As far as Kodak's web advertising goes - I call Bulls***! They'll say anything they can to keep moving product until they get it wound down and eliminated.

    As far as people here reacting out of fear, I'll direct you to the old saying that "Customers will vote with thier feet." I see a lot of feet here voting by marching right over to the Fuji and Ilford (and other) products. And I don't believe it has anything to do with fear, it has to do with supporting the company that DEMONSTRATES that it supports you. Not the one that says it does while acting to the contrary.

    Just my 2 lux worth.

  2. #12
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    My tendency is to leave emotion out of my purchasing decisions (for photographic as well as other products). I realize that I cannot punish Kodak for making business decisions that it deems necessary. Moreover, if every member of APUG decided to boycott Kodak, my instincts say that it would not impact the company's sales or overall profitability. To the extent that Kodak sells products that I use and enjoy, I will buy them. If other companies offer products more to my liking, I will buy those.

    In my time in photography, I have not found a better film then TRI-X that suits my tastes and style of photography. When Kodak announced the discontinuance of the "old" Tri-X, I purchased several hundred rolls. I will also continue using HC-110 because I like it in combination with Tri-X. If Kodak announces a discontinuance of that product, I will buy several cases to be used until I find something else. These decisions are correct for me because I spent a lot of hard work testing and calibrating these products. I don't want to do this with other products unless I really am forced to do so.

    I haven't used Kodak papers in 20 years because I like Ilford and Oriental much better. I use Fuji Velvia because I prefer it over anything that Kodak manufactures.

    I believe that you do your photography and live your life as best as you can without emoting over things you cannot control. It amazes me how we just continute to whine on about Kodak's business decisions. And, of course everyone here has a friend who knows exactly what happened/what's going to happen about the company. Kodak, like to many other American Corporations is going through a transition. Their managment and stockholders will decide what the company will be. None of us can control that. Kodak has always been a business that has been driven by consumer purchasing. Addressing the consumer market is what made George Eastman one of the wealthiest men of his time. It also made Kodak an industry giant. I suspect that consumer buying patterns will be the primary driver for their future fundamental decisons. The professional and advanced amateur market will be only a "boutique business" for Kodak and the rest of the photographic business. Or, maybe some other entreprenuer will be willing to invest in this portion of the market and make a go of it. It won't happen unless that investor can make a good profit. I know that many of our members don't like to see companies make large profits. Notwithstanding that, it is the only reason for an entreprenuer to invest.

    Frankly, I think that one of the best cars that were ever made was the 1993-1995 Acura Legend... Guess what? Honda changed the body style and the engine configuration as well as other things that I don't like about the new Acura. So, I pouted for about 5 minutes and then purchased another car from another manufacturer.

    Such is the essence of life....

  3. #13

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    At this point Kodak will do what Kodak thinks it needs to do, I will do what I think I need to do. I have used many Kodak products over the years including Plus X and Tri X, I just changed to HP5 and PF4, not because of Kodak, because I changed my standard developer to an Edwal 12 clone; and after testing I found HP5 and PF4 works better than Kodak. It Tri X worked as well or better I would still be buying Kodak as long as I could get it.

    I have lived though the demise of Dupont, Ansco/Gaf, and now Afga. I just hope that the world wide market for legacy film and paper will continue to provide a market for the remaining producers.

  4. #14
    SchwinnParamount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis
    That is Kodak's statement this quarter.
    Next quarter when they loose millions more they will have a new statement.
    Kodak will continue to cut and slash until they are nothing.

    Kodak is just another old american company that can not compete in today's global market.

    I compare Kodak to Westinghouse. It is only a matter of time till Kodak is completely gone.
    Kodak has struggled for the same reason any other film company around the world has struggled. It has nothing to do with your 'global market'. It has everything to do with the abandonment of film by your local, regional, national and international marketplace. Kodak has been committed to film in spite of what they knew was a disappearing market for film. By all rights, they should have been 'going digital' years earlier. They made a late comittment to digital technology and are losing money because they are playing catch-up.

    In case anybody is wondering... no I don't own a digital camera and do not plan on buying one. In fact, I'm building 8x10 cameras for myself, my son and a friend at the moment.

    Kodak lost 1 billion mostly because of a 1 time $900 million accounting adjustment. Next quarter will be different. I'm not sure why you find it important to note that Kodak is an American company. Are you trying to say that being American is particularly bad? I personally don't see how the nationality of a company makes them exceptionally 'evil'.

    You also need to understand that Kodak was successful because of what was a HUGE demand for film from the professional market. They created a very large manufacturing capacity to meet that need. The need is mostly gone and Kodak is NOT responsible for the current market conditions. In order for Kodak to survive in any form, they must shed themselves of expensive capital equipment that no longer contributes to their bottom line.

    If you were running a company that had the capacity to produce 1,000,000 widgets and you knew that you'd only be able to sell 1,000 widgets, would you still produce the million? If you chose to produce only enough widgets to meet the needs of the market place, what would you do with the machines which were now permanently idle? Any manager in any part of the world would do as Kodak has had to do.

    If you want to cast aspersions at somebody, go find the closest photojournalist in whatever country you're from and ask them why they are carrying around that digicam. While you are at it, look in the yellow pages for advertising agencys. Call each one and yell at the receptionist because the agency has 'gone digital'. It's the MARKET that is killing (American) Kodak, (English) Ilford and (German) Agfa. Who is the market? You and I!

    Why don't we use our mental energy in a constructive way? Let's find a way as a community to make film cool again. If our efforts slow the shrinkage of the film market or (God forbid) stabilize it at its current level then maybe our beloved film won't disappear for good.

  5. #15

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    I got rid of all my Kodak film, stuff every bit of it and switched over to Ilford and Fuji and have 0 regrets. I would never go back to Kodak.

  6. #16

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    There is just no replacement for Tmax400 in 8x10 as of yet. Until there is, or until it's gone, I will continue to use it. It is one of a kind.

  7. #17
    Paul Sorensen's Avatar
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    I agree that you can take statements on their web site with a grain of salt, but I will keep using TX as long as I can get it. Once I can no longer get it, I will probably move to HP-5 for my 120. I like it too much to punish myself by forgoing it to try to make a statement to Kodak.

  8. #18

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    i have no idea what to believe. ...
    i would hope that kodak will maintain their film line, a lot of people seem to be hoping for that ... but like i said, i don't know what to believe.

    when they closed / consolidated their brazilian manufacturing operations, i contacted kodak, and asked if the plant closing meant that they were slowly pulling out of the traditional photography market. i was forwarded to 3 different people, and then eventually, to somebody in the pacific northwest. i don't know if it was their PR agent, but he told me that kodak had no intentions of stopping film or PAPER production at that time, or anytime in the near future.

    weeks later, they announced that they were ceasing production of photo paper.

    i would love to believe that they will keep making film ( and chemicals), but have a feeling it is too late, besides all the "wishing stars" have been obscured by clouds.

    hopefully "the little guy" (read small scale european producers)
    will be able to help us out down the road.

  9. #19
    esanford's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if a Kodak spokesperson has been invited to the APUG forum next year? I think that it would be interesting and educational to have a rep show up and address a major user group.
    Often wrong, but never in doubt!

  10. #20
    BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwinnParamount
    Kodak has struggled for the same reason any other film company around the world has struggled. It has nothing to do with your 'global market'. It has everything to do with the abandonment of film by your local, regional, national and international marketplace. Kodak has been committed to film in spite of what they knew was a disappearing market for film. By all rights, they should have been 'going digital' years earlier. They made a late comittment to digital technology and are losing money because they are playing catch-up.

    In case anybody is wondering... no I don't own a digital camera and do not plan on buying one. In fact, I'm building 8x10 cameras for myself, my son and a friend at the moment.

    Kodak lost 1 billion mostly because of a 1 time $900 million accounting adjustment. Next quarter will be different. I'm not sure why you find it important to note that Kodak is an American company. Are you trying to say that being American is particularly bad? I personally don't see how the nationality of a company makes them exceptionally 'evil'.

    You also need to understand that Kodak was successful because of what was a HUGE demand for film from the professional market. They created a very large manufacturing capacity to meet that need. The need is mostly gone and Kodak is NOT responsible for the current market conditions. In order for Kodak to survive in any form, they must shed themselves of expensive capital equipment that no longer contributes to their bottom line.

    If you were running a company that had the capacity to produce 1,000,000 widgets and you knew that you'd only be able to sell 1,000 widgets, would you still produce the million? If you chose to produce only enough widgets to meet the needs of the market place, what would you do with the machines which were now permanently idle? Any manager in any part of the world would do as Kodak has had to do.

    If you want to cast aspersions at somebody, go find the closest photojournalist in whatever country you're from and ask them why they are carrying around that digicam. While you are at it, look in the yellow pages for advertising agencys. Call each one and yell at the receptionist because the agency has 'gone digital'. It's the MARKET that is killing (American) Kodak, (English) Ilford and (German) Agfa. Who is the market? You and I!

    Why don't we use our mental energy in a constructive way? Let's find a way as a community to make film cool again. If our efforts slow the shrinkage of the film market or (God forbid) stabilize it at its current level then maybe our beloved film won't disappear for good.

    Schwinn, Thanks for this. It is, without a doubt, the most rational and well thought out response I've yet seen with regard to this matter.

    I would only add that Kodak, Ilford, Agfa, Fuji and the like are corporations. They exist precisely to maximize profit - nothing more, nothing less. None of them "support" us.

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