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  1. #11
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    I had a discussion last week with someone living in Rochester who is in a position to be extremely well informed about the state of things. He is convinced it is a matter of a few years if not months before silver paper is going to be gone. His reasoning is that apparently every paper manufacturer buys their baryta paper base from the same factory in Germany (schoeller), and that they are down to one line staying busy only a few days per month. If Schoeller decides to close this production line, bam!, no more paper, because no one will have the stock on which to coat their gelatin emulsions. Now, someone could always just coat on something like a COT320 or similar stock, but it will not have the same hard baryta 'look' that we have become accustomed to associating with silver gelatin printing. I hope he is wrong, but I have this uncomfortable feeling that the days of factory made silver gelatin paper are numbered. Thank goodness Hollywood still uses film as their distribution medium. That should keep film technology alive a little longer - I hope.

  2. #12

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    This is exactly why I continue to support Ilford.

    Way to go!

  3. #13
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    Clay, Kevin, yes they buy from Schoeller but I have personally talked to Schoeller representatives and they say that conventional photo paper outsells digital right now. Also, there are manufacturers in Eastern Europe and Russia making baryta papers.

    Color paper is selling very well, thank you, in spite of what is said above about conventional papers.

    I have sources for baryta paper that are quite good, and hope to be able to use it for quite some time. I also have formulas for baryta paper and can make my own if needed, so nothing will 'vanish' from the marketplace.

    Remember this, baryta paper accounts for less than 50% of the market for conventional anyhow. Most of it is RC with titanox. Most of it is color. Most of it is double weight.

    So, the first to vanish is SW FB. Azo is an example. Yet if needed, I can still find SW FB Baryta. Hard but not impossible. And, as I said in my last post, it has not vanished, there are Kentmere, Ilford, EFKE and well, I make my own Azo and an equivalent of Kodabromide. So, it lives. It will continue to live. Doom and gloom will not help. Optimizm, commitment and hard work will. Are you all up to it? Or will you LET it die?

    PE

  4. #14
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    Clay, btw, I hope that your 'informant' had a chance to talk to Mr. Perez. I think that Mr. Perez is pretty well informed and I was impressed with his forthcoming honest nature.

    PE

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    Clay, Kevin, yes they buy from Schoeller but I have personally talked to Schoeller representatives and they say that conventional photo paper outsells digital right now. Also, there are manufacturers in Eastern Europe and Russia making baryta papers.

    Color paper is selling very well, thank you, in spite of what is said above about conventional papers.

    I have sources for baryta paper that are quite good, and hope to be able to use it for quite some time. I also have formulas for baryta paper and can make my own if needed, so nothing will 'vanish' from the marketplace.

    Remember this, baryta paper accounts for less than 50% of the market for conventional anyhow. Most of it is RC with titanox. Most of it is color. Most of it is double weight.

    So, the first to vanish is SW FB. Azo is an example. Yet if needed, I can still find SW FB Baryta. Hard but not impossible. And, as I said in my last post, it has not vanished, there are Kentmere, Ilford, EFKE and well, I make my own Azo and an equivalent of Kodabromide. So, it lives. It will continue to live. Doom and gloom will not help. Optimizm, commitment and hard work will. Are you all up to it? Or will you LET it die?

    PE
    Well said!.

    This is the same chicken little doom and gloom we went through last year when Forte and Ilford went into bankruptcy and everyone rushed to buy freezers for a lifetime supply of film.
    www.jandcphoto.com

  6. #16
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    J&C, I commend you as one of the finest suppliers of conventional photo materials. My Kudos to you for your efforts to stand behind conventional photo products.

    Keep up the good work.

    We cannot be everything to everyone, but we can do as good a job as possible to the broadest market possible. It is good to see people trying out there.

    Thanks.

    PE

  7. #17

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    AZO / Replacemen Printing Papers

    This is addressed to the photo community in general, and to Photo Mechanic in general.

    Namely, if SW FB "AZO" printing papers are relative easy to produce, why is it that no major photographic supplier - Illford, J&C, Kentmere, or Calumet - has seized the opportunity to produce a silver chloride "AZO" type of printing paper? Indeed, given that contact printing papers can be used by all manner of photogrpahers and related artists; what financial or govermental "interests" would prefer - and are able to cause - contact printing to become extinct?

    Regards,

    Flauvius

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flauvius
    This is addressed to the photo community in general, and to Photo Mechanic in general.

    Namely, if SW FB "AZO" printing papers are relative easy to produce, why is it that no major photographic supplier - Illford, J&C, Kentmere, or Calumet - has seized the opportunity to produce a silver chloride "AZO" type of printing paper? Indeed, given that contact printing papers can be used by all manner of photogrpahers and related artists; what financial or govermental "interests" would prefer - and are able to cause - contact printing to become extinct?

    Regards,

    Flauvius
    Because the market is too small compared to that of people using VC double weight paper. VC and graded papers are usable both for enlarging as well as contact printing. Silver chloride papers can only be used for contact printing unless you are willing to shell out a couple of thou on a special head.

  9. #19

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    The Ilford MBO was no doubt a very well timed move by the interested parties. I'll bet that predicted 20% decline in sales will actually be a 40% or more INCREASE in sales for Ilford (film and paper) now that Kodak has quit making paper and Agfa and gone belly-up altogether. It's not surprising that Ilford is the last of the big three to remain standing in the paper side of the business- it's a better product than either Kodak or Agfa produced. But the fact remains, Ilford's survival will not be a cake-walk. I'm still considering buying a large freezer.
    "A certain amount of contempt for the material employed to express an idea is indispensable to the purest realization of this idea." Man Ray

  10. #20
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    Well, that is good to know. I certainly hope you are correct and we will be able to get it for a long time. Actually, the Kodak decision on black and white did not really surprise me. Just anecdotally, I knew ran into very few people who used Kodak B&W paper regularly. The only 'name' Kodak paper user I was aware of was John Sexton.

    Has anything more come of the baryta coated COT320 co-op?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    Clay, Kevin, yes they buy from Schoeller but I have personally talked to Schoeller representatives and they say that conventional photo paper outsells digital right now. Also, there are manufacturers in Eastern Europe and Russia making baryta papers.

    Color paper is selling very well, thank you, in spite of what is said above about conventional papers.

    I have sources for baryta paper that are quite good, and hope to be able to use it for quite some time. I also have formulas for baryta paper and can make my own if needed, so nothing will 'vanish' from the marketplace.

    Remember this, baryta paper accounts for less than 50% of the market for conventional anyhow. Most of it is RC with titanox. Most of it is color. Most of it is double weight.

    So, the first to vanish is SW FB. Azo is an example. Yet if needed, I can still find SW FB Baryta. Hard but not impossible. And, as I said in my last post, it has not vanished, there are Kentmere, Ilford, EFKE and well, I make my own Azo and an equivalent of Kodabromide. So, it lives. It will continue to live. Doom and gloom will not help. Optimizm, commitment and hard work will. Are you all up to it? Or will you LET it die?

    PE

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