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  1. #21
    cvik's Avatar
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    What is the problem with Maco? It's not like Efke or others are forced to make film for Maco - they do so because they get money for doing so. Efke produces film originally made by Adox - so what? Maco sell "new" Rollei films originally made by Agfa such as Retro 100 and 400 (apx 100 and 400) produced at Geveart. Is that a problem too?

    AFAIK Efke doesn't sell "Efke Ortho 25". Maco, however, sell Maco Ortho 25. I really don't care who actually produce it nor who developed the formulae.. It is unimportant as long as I can buy it. (of course, if the production itself was done by poor children held as slaves in some third world country things would be different). Efke chooses to produce films for Maco. I can buy the film I want, Maco gets money, Efke gets money. What is there to complain about?

    About the remaining stocks. AgfaPhoto is bankrupt. It is run by administrators in bankruptcy whos purpose is to get as much money for the creditors as possible. AgfaPhoto probably won't be around long enough to sell out the stock so they sold it to someone who will - a far better solution (for everyone) than to dump it at the nearest disposal site.

  2. #22
    edz
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvik
    What is the problem with Maco? It's not like Efke or others are forced to make film for Maco - they do so because they get money for doing so.
    And the Efke that we all knew is bankrupt and liquidated and the property sold. There is a new company "New Efke" (the old brand I hear is still tied up) but I'm not quite clear what they are doing. The move by one of their major importers (Fotoimpex in Berlin) to slap the brand Adox on their films I don't think is a good sign.

    The volumes of Ekfe films sold are so miniscule by industry standards that there is no reason to assume any has been coated within the last few years. How many years after the collapse of OrWo was Ekfe still coating and selling films made on their bases?


    Efke produces film originally made by Adox - so what?
    Efke sell films mainly made by Efke. To my knowledge they never imported films from Adox (they did long import their base materials from OrWo though).

    Maco sell "new" Rollei films originally made by Agfa such as Retro 100 and 400 (apx 100 and 400) produced at Geveart. Is that a problem too?
    Those films were NOT made by Agfa but where cut down from master rolls of APX100 and APX400 materials coated in Leverkusen BUT finished in Hungry (Forte, in need of cash). Nothing to my knowledge was produced at Gevaert (Belgium) and now that the coating machines have been shut down in Leverkusen (the final run of film and paper was last month) they can only sell from stocks (which can last some time).

    AFAIK Efke doesn't sell "Efke Ortho 25". Maco, however, sell Maco Ortho 25.
    Excellent film. As close to a match to AgfaOrtho25 as one could ever find. Not quite sure what it is, who made it and if its still being coated or if its not old stocks--- keep in mind the keeping properties and that even more briskly selling films like Technical Pan were last coated maybe 7 years before it got discontinued.


    I really don't care who actually produce it nor who developed the formulae..
    You should! Given the large stockpile of old stocks in warehouses one needs to view these materials as direct competition to those from companies that are still trying to coat film and paper and need to keep their machines running and maintained.

    Sure they'll sell to who comes along. They all need the business and the cash. "If we don't sell them the films cheaply then Chaim Jankel will sell his Nebishpan cheaper".. We have oversupply and declining demands.

    The problem is not films and papers today but keeping the machines running for tommorrow.
    Edward C. Zimmermann
    BSn R&D // http://www.nonmonotonic.net

  3. #23

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    The problem is not films and papers today but keeping the machines running for tommorrow.
    I think more or less you're right about this point of view. Maybe there are some (rich??) APUG investors who would like to buy some coating, slitting and other machines in Leverkusen to start up some production elswere.

    End December we will do an effort to reach an agreement with the administrators in bankruptcy. You will never know.....

    Robert

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fotohuis
    Maybe there are some (rich??) APUG investors who would like to buy some coating, slitting and other machines in Leverkusen to start up some production elswere.
    A collective effort, some APUGpan 100 would be nice... ;-)
    - You will develop when you become an analog photographer / Exposed Material / Monochromes

  5. #25

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    A collective effort, some APUGpan 100 would be nice... ;-)
    Yes, a good combination with the RoVonal (TM) R09 developer.

  6. #26
    cvik's Avatar
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    edz:
    I didn't know Efke was gone allthough I've noticed the name change. I doubt it's because of Maco though. But, does this mean Efke, Forte, Agfa, Rollei and Maco are just selling film while supplies last? What about the new Rollei films? (R3 and Pan25 didn't, AFAIK, exist under a different brand before). What about Forte paper?

    I don't use Ilford products except for PanF and peceptol. If the companies above are gone I'll probably go over to the dark side. Anyone interested in an enlarger or cameras?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by cvik
    edz:
    I didn't know Efke was gone allthough I've noticed the name change. I doubt it's because of Maco though. But, does this mean Efke, Forte, Agfa, Rollei and Maco are just selling film while supplies last? What about the new Rollei films? (R3 and Pan25 didn't, AFAIK, exist under a different brand before). What about Forte paper?

    I don't use Ilford products except for PanF and peceptol. If the companies above are gone I'll probably go over to the dark side. Anyone interested in an enlarger or cameras?
    As usual edz doesn't have a clue what he's babbling about. Efke is producing film as we speak including new runs of the ortho films, PL25 and PL100 along with paper. Forte is is also producing paper and film. They just shipped us a new run of the 400 film a couple of weeks ago. Efke's restructuring last year was to eliminate excess labor costs that like with other companies that have gone into bankruptcy couldn't fire anyone.
    www.jandcphoto.com

  8. #28
    edz
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandc
    As usual edz doesn't have a clue what he's babbling about.
    :-)

    Efke is producing film as we speak including new runs of the ortho films, PL25 and PL100 along with paper.
    What do you mean by "new runs"? Are they coating or fabricating? There is a big difference. MINOX, for instance, is still fabricating Minopan 25 cartridges for their submini cameras (Minopan 25 is the long discontinued APX25 which was last coated years ago). Ask Mirko when he thinks some of the films you are getting were coated! Ask David Foy when he thinks the Bluefire Police film he sells was coated.....


    Forte is is also producing paper and film.
    I never claimed otherwise. In the case of "New Ekfe" I just pointed out that "I'm not quite clear what they are doing."
    So, are they coating? What? At what rate (cycle)?
    (btw. one does not sell fresh film or paper since they need like meat, wine and tobacco to be "aged").
    Agfa, for example, only coated B&W materials twice a year. Industrial materials were, for the most part, coated to significantly longer intervals. The last run of the film coating at Agfa was a aerographic material, for example, intended to fill demand for no less than 1/2 a decade or so (perhaps even longer do to the shifting demands)--- and this a film with significantly less keeping properties than any of the consumer B&W materials we are normally concerned with here.

    Efke's restructuring last year was to eliminate excess labor costs that like with other companies that have gone into bankruptcy couldn't fire anyone.
    The question is: Are they coating (The same question I've asked Cybergraphics, the current name for Oriental, http://www.cybergraphics.co.jp/ about their papers and have recieved no answer) ???

    I don't want to know who is fabricating films and papers but who is coating.
    Edward C. Zimmermann
    BSn R&D // http://www.nonmonotonic.net

  9. #29

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    The efke film with the new adox package has a much higher expiration date than the stuff in the old box. Sounds like a newly made emulsion to me.

  10. #30
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    Just a quick note in response to EDZs post above.

    I used to get production runs of color materials right from the end of the coating machine, and I would process them for 'first tests' as we called it.

    The film or paper was supposed to meet release specifications at that instant.

    There was no aging involved in the products I worked with, so although it might be true of some prodcuts (Kodachrome comes to mind at one time), or with some manufacturers, it is not a hard and fast rule.

    In the long ago past, many products had to be aged, but it was mainly a hardener issue. For example, the chrome alum hardener and some others took weeks to months to fully harden the gelatin. This is no longer true.

    Most products of present manufacture can be sold immediately after coating AFAIK.

    PE

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