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  1. #11
    Dave Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikoSperi
    I don't believe it is different. 13x18 designation IS the metric term for 5x7" film, no?

    As for them not selling outside the EU, I'm sure that if some Ape Huggers ask nicely, there will be some Euro Ape Huggers that can act as middle men... We might even offer a discounted fee!
    Niko,

    No 5 in = 127mm and 7 in = 178mm so your two mm over on the 18cm measurment and 3mm over on the 13cm measurement, this creates a problem in the ground glass I do, and can cause a problem with film holders as well.

    Dave

  2. #12
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Bit of an update re Agfa Black and White Paper.

    I was told today , that the coating alleys for paper are in the Bayer plant in Germany and not a stand alone building.
    The reality of someone leasing a section of Bayers property is remote . Sadly this could bring the result of no more paper.
    What is left are the master rolls and vendors world wide have purchased the stock and will be redistributing in the near future.
    Amplis Foto has a large shipment coming , but it will be the last shipment through them.

  3. #13
    NikoSperi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satinsnow
    Niko,

    No 5 in = 127mm and 7 in = 178mm so your two mm over on the 18cm measurment and 3mm over on the 13cm measurement, this creates a problem in the ground glass I do, and can cause a problem with film holders as well.

    Dave
    Thx Dave. I am aware of the conversion of inches to metric. My point is about conventions; we metric Europeans refer to 4x5" as 10x12 (cm) even though it is really 10.2x12.7cm. (And yes, I know there is a close European sheet film format to 4x5" which is different)

    So my understanding is that the 13x18 is again convention referring to 5x7" film. We don't walk into the shop and ask for "a box of 25 sheets of 12,7cm by 17.8 centimeter films please." The Agfa sheets on auction are 5x7" - commonly referred to in the Olde Worlde as ye 13x18... we've always been content with approximations, right? Hell, we thought we were in India when we found you guys after all!
    If you tone it down alot, it almost becomes bearable.

    - Walker Evans on using color

  4. #14
    Dave Parker's Avatar
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    No Problem Niko,

    I was just saying, I have had it make a difference, and I also have several 13x18 holders here and they won't fit my 5x7 2D correctly...

    Dave

    LOL

  5. #15
    NikoSperi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satinsnow
    I was just saying, I have had it make a difference, and I also have several 13x18 holders here and they won't fit my 5x7 2D correctly...
    That was my original question: there is a European format which is 9x12cm, and obviously different holders for it from the 4x5" (10x12 colloquially, 102x127mm in fact).
    Unlike the 4x5" vs 9x12cm which are actually two different sizes, I believe that for 5x7" or close, there is only one sheet film format. There isn't an actual 13x18cm European format, is there, different from 5x7"?
    If you tone it down alot, it almost becomes bearable.

    - Walker Evans on using color

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikoSperi
    That was my original question: there is a European format which is 9x12cm, and obviously different holders for it from the 4x5" (10x12 colloquially, 102x127mm in fact).
    Unlike the 4x5" vs 9x12cm which are actually two different sizes, I believe that for 5x7" or close, there is only one sheet film format. There isn't an actual 13x18cm European format, is there, different from 5x7"?
    Yes, there is an actual European 13cm x 18 cm format. You can get very nearly all films that you can have at 5x7 in 13x18 aswell.

  7. #17
    Petzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie
    Bit of an update re Agfa Black and White Paper.

    I was told today , that the coating alleys for paper are in the Bayer plant in Germany and not a stand alone building.
    The reality of someone leasing a section of Bayers property is remote . Sadly this could bring the result of no more paper.
    What is left are the master rolls and vendors world wide have purchased the stock and will be redistributing in the near future.
    Amplis Foto has a large shipment coming , but it will be the last shipment through them.
    Bob, the coating machines for paper and film are indeed located within the Bayer plant in Leverkusen. But that is not just one building. It is one of the biggest chemical factories in the world. It is as big as a city and over 15,000 people work there. It has all kinds of infrastructure services, its own specialized fire brigade etc. In fact, the fire brigade is so well equipped, that the municipal fire brigades of the Cologne region request their assistance from time to time.

    As far as I know, Bayer is actually interested in getting third parties into their Leverkusen facilities, and a few companies have moved in already. If someone wanted to buy the Agfa coating equipment, then I am certain Bayer would be happy to rent the building to them. I don't see why either side would have a problem with that. Note that Bayer has not been affiliated with Agfa for years, still Agfa worked within the Bayer plant.

    The coating alleys at AgfaPhoto in Leverkusen have been shut down last November. A local newspaper article was titled "Lights have been turned on at Agfa"...

  8. #18
    edz
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanderx1
    Yes, there is an actual European 13cm x 18 cm format. You can get very nearly all films that you can have at 5x7 in 13x18 aswell.
    5x7" is considered an obsolete format so less is available than in 4x5". The European 13x18 size, like all metric sheet film sizes, is in decline and combined with the total decline of large format usage its now nearly only niche. There is, however, still a very good selection in 13x18 and, in fact, many emulsions are available in 13x18 that are not to be found in 5x7" (quite the contrast from 9x12cm versus 4x5").
    Edward C. Zimmermann
    BSn R&D // http://www.nonmonotonic.net

  9. #19
    NikoSperi's Avatar
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    Edward, thank you for that - I was afraid my assuming the world could all get along with one standard would again be misplaced. :rolleyes:

    So, one jumping into LF today would be collecting standards and film holders according to film availability, would have to go imperial for 4x5", but metric for 13x18cm.

    Out of curiosity, is this the same for 8x10" vs 18x24cm?
    If you tone it down alot, it almost becomes bearable.

    - Walker Evans on using color

  10. #20
    Petzi's Avatar
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    4x5" has prevailed over 9x12cm.
    13x18cm has prevailed over 5x7".
    8x10" has prevailed over 18x24cm.

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