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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji
    Did you or anyone do the research on who voted for this stupid bill when it passed the congress 5 years ago?
    There's hardly any literature up to this point as I have said before.

    The following is the government's official site for this law:

    http://www.meti.go.jp/policy/consumer/seian/denan/

    Keep in mind that some of the third-party inspection agencies listed at the bottom of the page are mostly chaired by ex-government officials. Typical scene of "amakudari" I guess.

    Here's another site that more specifics:

    http://law.e-gov.go.jp/htmldata/S37/S37SE324.html

    This one is in English, interestingly showing the map from the transitional period:

    http://www5.cao.go.jp/otodb/english/.../lh_03010.html

    I didn't know about this English page, which doesn't get picked up by my Google search (, and I'm not in China!)

    http://www.meti.go.jp/english/inform...ace050217.html

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by firecracker
    Hey, there's a little description of enlargers saying something like under 125mm and 100mm.
    Is it limited to 4x5 and smaller ?
    kunihiko kario

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by kunihiko
    Hey, there's a litt?e description of enlargers saying something like under 125mm and 100mm.
    Is it limited to 4x5 and smaller ?
    From what I understand, it's easier to go through the list of the items that are NOT going to be affected by the law, such as computers, portable musical players, etc. Unfortunately enlargers made prior to 2001 will be subject to this.

    I'm assuming this is part of the reason why Ginichi stopped importing used Omega and Beseler enlargers besides they had to do some alignment work before selling them in their shop.

    And it's not just the darkroom equipment, but studio equipment, too if you use strobe and/or lighting units and need maintenance for them, you may run into trouble.

    At this point as far as I know, there's no one online who is knowledgeable enough to give specific insturctions to anyone with any particular product. Even the government officials do not clearly say what will exactly happen. The spokesperson from the Ministry of ETI said they are still in adjusting or whatever, but it's a big lie if not out of his total ignorance. They simply don't care.

    Meanwhile, the public opinion is fully not gathered yet, but the polls show that more than 65 percent of the people interviewed recently said they didn't know about it. That includes many shop owners in Akihabara.

    Anyway I don't think everyone will make a smooth transition from 1st of April, we'll have keep informing people at least.

    There are petition forms going around online, but they are basically for the Japanese people only. If they start to go in a bigger circle, I will have the link here.

  4. #24

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    Once again, the useful links for this issue are:

    http://www.meti.go.jp/english/index.html

    http://antipse.org/index.html

    http://sound.jp/pse/

    http://www.jspa.gr.jp/

    The last three addresses are in Japanese language only.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji
    Firecracker,

    First of all, your use of automobile issue beyond as an additional example of how the Japanese views the safety issue is getting too off topic from your original point of the difficulty anticipated by the used appliance merchants. Your original opinion may lose credibility when viewed by someone who doesn't understand how ridiculous this particular law is.

    I understand what you described all sound ridiculous to you, but I hope you look at them in a different way. I am a Japanese citizen living in the US and there are great many things I found really ridiculous in my 11 years here, but I'm not going to sign in a public website and discuss them. There are already lots of them for both Japan and the US (but those sites for the US are usually written in Japanese or French language, as you guess :-) and there is a series of books called Xenophobe's Guide to Americans, Japanese, French, British, or whatever nationality. You should check out the Japanese and US editions at least.

    For a lot of social issues, there is no single universally applicable solution. Look at the beef problem, for example. I see the points made from both US and Japan sides, and each of them is saying something that makes total sense among themselves. BUT it's a prime example of how the politicians and voters are deeply ignorant of each other's culture. USDA secretary must have a good advisor because he quickly realized something and changed direction, but lower ranks don't appear to.

    On the automobile issue, I pay $30 to get an inspection sticker for checking a couple of things in 10 minutes every year, in Massachusetts. I know some people in Boston who keep their Ohio (or put any favorite state here) plate because their car wouldn't pass the MA inspection. I think that the US system has some problem. You see the problem? If no, I hope you at least recognize that there are different views on many things you mentioned. I agree with you on the used appliance issue, and somewhat on the somewhat excessive inspection requirement, but I can also see that you are applying your own cultural standard to a different land. I don't think that'll help you.

    I think people are generally happy by banning old cars and diesel cars in Tokyo, although the governer is a very controversial one (and he's getting old---he used to make a lot more sense). You should realize how dense that region is. It's not the same as driving a classic car in New Mexico.
    Perhaps my English is failing me, but upon reading and re-reading all the posts... I fail to find any comments calling the Japanese laws ridiculous. I think most people here are clearly intelligent enough to notice the necessary differences in approach to legislation on a chain of islands with over 125 million people on them, and a continent like North America with its comperatively sparse population. No one is calling them ridiculous. I just attempted to present a possible impact on people in Norht America - mainly because I don't claim to know the first thing about the socio-economic reality of living in Japan.
    I am glad that firecracker pointed out a few things to me - it was somewhat narrowminded of me to forget about the impact it would have on the various relationships in Japan itself (like the example of Fuji and the school system or hospital beds).
    I find the liberal flinging of implications of xenophobic tendencies and the childish comments to the effect of "well, its your laws that make no sense" was in poor taste and uncalled for to say the least - not to mention the obvious insecurities it exposes about the person making them, especially when combined with the air of superiority with which they are expressed...

    Peter.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnashings
    Perhaps my English is failing me, but upon reading and re-reading all the posts... I fail to find any comments calling the Japanese laws ridiculous. I think most people here are clearly intelligent enough to notice the necessary differences in approach to legislation on a chain of islands with over 125 million people on them, and a continent like North America with its comperatively sparse population. No one is calling them ridiculous. I just attempted to present a possible impact on people in Norht America - mainly because I don't claim to know the first thing about the socio-economic reality of living in Japan.
    I am glad that firecracker pointed out a few things to me - it was somewhat narrowminded of me to forget about the impact it would have on the various relationships in Japan itself (like the example of Fuji and the school system or hospital beds).
    I find the liberal flinging of implications of xenophobic tendencies and the childish comments to the effect of "well, its your laws that make no sense" was in poor taste and uncalled for to say the least - not to mention the obvious insecurities it exposes about the person making them, especially when combined with the air of superiority with which they are expressed...

    Peter.
    I don't know what you are trying to say but you are missing the point. And your earlier post was underestimating the significance of this new law, which both firecracker and I called ridiculous (and at least 35000 people said so in a very short period of time after this issue was reported in mass media).

    By the way, the post you are attacking was written for firecracker and not you. If you want to start your own argument, please do that in a separate thread. And please don't distort what I said.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnashings
    Perhaps my English is failing me, but upon reading and re-reading all the posts... I fail to find any comments calling the Japanese laws ridiculous. I think most people here are clearly intelligent enough to notice the necessary differences in approach to legislation on a chain of islands with over 125 million people on them, and a continent like North America with its comperatively sparse population. No one is calling them ridiculous. I just attempted to present a possible impact on people in Norht America - mainly because I don't claim to know the first thing about the socio-economic reality of living in Japan.
    I am glad that firecracker pointed out a few things to me - it was somewhat narrowminded of me to forget about the impact it would have on the various relationships in Japan itself (like the example of Fuji and the school system or hospital beds).
    I find the liberal flinging of implications of xenophobic tendencies and the childish comments to the effect of "well, its your laws that make no sense" was in poor taste and uncalled for to say the least - not to mention the obvious insecurities it exposes about the person making them, especially when combined with the air of superiority with which they are expressed...

    Peter.
    Peter, don't worry about it. You're fine. You gotta have a sense of humor. It's acutally part of my fault of not providing enough background information of what's going on over here, but I think that's a secondary issue anyway. But I agree ebay sites all round the world may become hotter than ever.

    What I keep reading in some of the Japanese websites where the people in Japan are expressing their concerns over this issue is that they despise the new law, but they don't know how to appeach to prevent it from happening yet. And I hear the same thing when I talk to people around me.

    It's sort of like seeing the polls for the public opinions in various countries before the invasion of Iraq a few years back, when the number for the opposition was really high especially in Europe. I mean, it's just that, but what went on was... that's still going on.

    So, I feel like I have to do what I have to do. I call stupid laws and legislations stupid and/or ridiculous as long as I live in the culture that is being affected by them. There's nothing wrong with it as long as you deal with them. What about the wheale-hunting? It's so global that you cannot nail down which countries the problems originate, you know?

    The worst thing you can do is not doing anything for what you really care about and letting it die. Still, no one will be held responsible for the result whatever it may be, but how much do you have to regret for the rest of your life?

  8. #28

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    It appears that this bill was passed by pretty much all members except the members of the communist party. But at the same time, there is no mention of used equipment falling under the regulation in the legislation or the discussion. It appears to me that the used equipment was quietly added in the later process by METI. This point was lately called to an account by Shiokawa, a member of the communist party. Kawauchi of democratic party is also very active on this issue recently.

    http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kawauchi-sori/m/200603
    (also check the Feb blog)

    http://park5.wakwak.com/~rung/mt/arc..._00crisis.html

    http://antipse.org/con.html

    http://www.shugiin.go.jp/itdb_kaigir...7.htm#p_honbun

    http://kokkai.ndl.go.jp/SENTAKU/syug...10010017c.html

    http://www.sangiin.go.jp/japanese/ka...-0802-v003.htm

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji
    It appears that this bill was passed by pretty much all members except the members of the communist party. But at the same time, there is no mention of used equipment falling under the regulation in the legislation or the discussion. It appears to me that the used equipment was quietly added in the later process by METI. This point was lately called to an account by Shiokawa, a member of the communist party. Kawauchi of democratic party is also very active on this issue recently.

    http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kawauchi-sori/m/200603
    (also check the Feb blog)

    http://park5.wakwak.com/~rung/mt/arc..._00crisis.html

    http://antipse.org/con.html

    http://www.shugiin.go.jp/itdb_kaigir...7.htm#p_honbun

    http://kokkai.ndl.go.jp/SENTAKU/syug...10010017c.html

    http://www.sangiin.go.jp/japanese/ka...-0802-v003.htm
    Thanks for the links. That clearly shows that the house doesn't represent the public at all.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by firecracker
    Thanks for the links. That clearly shows that the house doesn't represent the public at all.
    Well, the focus of the bill was elsewhere. They were trying to shift the responsibility of ensuring safety from the government to the industry. In that sense no member was really against it. The communist party is generally against anything that has to do with deregulation (and regulation), so they voted against in 参議院. 衆議院 (and its committee) voted by standing, so there is no official record of who voted against, but I assume all communists remained sat down.

    At this point, I think the most effective way to deal with this is to send encouragement and any useful information to Kawauchi of the democratic party (The first link in my previous post) and perhaps Shiokawa of the communist party. Generally democratic party members get a lot more time in discussion, but for some reasons most scandals are discovered/exposed by communist members, so you never know. If you know a member of your district, especially if s/he is an LDP member, talk to them. Or encourage people around you to talk to them.

    I plan to send a letter to those people as well.

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