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  1. #11
    Andy K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    Then again, just think: if you could get reliably bad film, with unpredictable faults, you could try taking Holga-type 'aleatory' pictures with a reliable camera...
    ... which would eliminate the luck element and make the exercise pointless (in the eyes of many toy camera users).


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  2. #12

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    new Ilford film

    I just want to say -- please keep making the 3200 for 35mm!! We really need it for our low-light stage work!
    [SIZE=7][SIZE=3]APUGers do it in the DARK[/SIZE][SIZE=3]![/SIZE][/SIZE] :D

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy K
    ... which would eliminate the luck element and make the exercise pointless (in the eyes of many toy camera users).
    Not if the film always had unpredictable faults. That was the point...

    Cheers,

    Thelonius Luck-Fillet

  4. #14
    Paul Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    Dear Paul,

    'Barbs' is putting it a bit harshly -- as I say, it was meant lightheartedly -- but yes, that's it.

    Then again, just think: if you could get reliably bad film, with unpredictable faults, you could try taking Holga-type 'aleatory' pictures with a reliable camera...

    Cheers,

    Hezakiah Toadmountain
    I wasn't insulted, hence the smile. I can't imagine a film that gets less sharp the farther you are from the center of a frame, but if you can come up with it, I will buy some.

  5. #15
    DBP
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    Maybe they could develop something with a slightly elastic base. Or maybe a sheet film with a wavy finish so random portions could be out of focus for the LF Holga effect.

  6. #16
    DBP
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    BTW, I have a copy of the issue of Popular Photography that I believe initiated the Diana craze back in the 70s. Having read the article, I still don't get it. I especially don't understand why Dianas and Holgas are supposed to do a bad job better than any of the thousands of other cheap plastic cameras introduced over the years.

  7. #17
    George Papantoniou's Avatar
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    If someone reads the ourageous stuff you all write here, he'll think that it's really hard to do a bad job perfectly (I mean, perfectly bad)....

    When I wanted a bad film, I fixed unexposed 4x5 sheets and then I applied liquid emulsion on them with a brush (without taking care not to cause bubbles or uneven strokes). You would be surprised to see how bad it was...

  8. #18
    Leon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    Not if the film always had unpredictable faults. That was the point...

    Cheers,

    Thelonius Luck-Fillet
    Dear Mr Lillet- Fu .... erm whoops - Luck-Fillet.

    I'm an avid user of the holga and it's slightly more sturdy Japanese Cousin, the Fujipet. I must admit to getting a great hit-rate of successfull pics when using my plastic contraptions and would never dream of putting anything less than quality films through them.

    I know your post was originally almost funny (sort of), and must admit the there are quite a few toycamerateers out there for whom the image means nothing, and the faults everything, so your humour is quite well applied in their cases. But, there are plenty of us for whom the quirky toycamera is just another tool in the process of producing quality artistic prints. I guess we are the people who dont obsess over the perfect glass, who dont long to be able to take out the second and third mortgages to be able to afford the latests perfect-colour-renditioning-non-distorting- blah-blah lenses, who dont lust over the next Leicblad build quality platinum plated body. We are just in it for the art.

    I'll hapilly send you a holga print to see if it helps you "get it"? PM me of you're interested.

  9. #19
    DBP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon
    Dear Mr Lillet- Fu .... erm whoops - Luck-Fillet.

    I'm an avid user of the holga and it's slightly more sturdy Japanese Cousin, the Fujipet. I must admit to getting a great hit-rate of successfull pics when using my plastic contraptions and would never dream of putting anything less than quality films through them.

    I know your post was originally almost funny (sort of), and must admit the there are quite a few toycamerateers out there for whom the image means nothing, and the faults everything, so your humour is quite well applied in their cases. But, there are plenty of us for whom the quirky toycamera is just another tool in the process of producing quality artistic prints. I guess we are the people who dont obsess over the perfect glass, who dont long to be able to take out the second and third mortgages to be able to afford the latests perfect-colour-renditioning-non-distorting- blah-blah lenses, who dont lust over the next Leicblad build quality platinum plated body. We are just in it for the art.

    I'll hapilly send you a holga print to see if it helps you "get it"? PM me of you're interested.
    You make it sound like anyone who doesn't want to use a toy camera is obsessing about lens quality. You missed the point. There are endless choices out there for nice soft focus lenses. But Holga, Diana, and Lomo users seem to think you have to use one of those products, and pay a premium to do so. I am by no means an equipment snob, I use Argus Cs and Zorkis, among other things, but I don't get why one has to buy a Holga to take pics any box camera built in the last 120 years can take. Take a look at Marcy Merrill's work to see what I mean.

  10. #20

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    Dear Leon,

    Thanks for the kind offer, but I have seen good Holga shots; the original post was indeed intended as a lighthearted passing idea. I can 'get it' when the Holga works, but a lot of people seem to revel in the light-leaks and unreliability, which seems a bit masochistic to me. Actually I have a Lyubitel TLR, £2 at a car boot sale, which has some of the same charms as a Holga, and a Fex Himalaya (bizarre French box camera) which is a bit Holga-ish too.

    They're fun, but on the rare occasions I use such cameras, I think, nah, I'll stick with something sharper and easier to use -- which needn't cost a fortune. The MF camera I've used most lately is a KowaSIX which I inherited from my late father-in-law. A surprisingly good camera but I hate to think how little it's worth.

    What happens in too many cases, I fear, is that people look at a good picture taken with a Holga (or Diana before them -- I had one of those too) and fall into the classic logical trap of the omitted middle: this is a good print, so if I get a Holga, I'll get good pictures too. This completely ignores the photographer's talent and temperament.

    Of course if you want REALLY bad quality there's always digital...

    Cheers,

    Roger

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