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  1. #21
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    I've been experimenting with wet mounting single-ply albumen prints using archival wheat starch.

    It's easy enough to avoid creases, but not so easy to keep adhesive from oozing out onto the mount. I think the thing is just to wipe it off with a not-too-damp cloth, so as not to get the mounting board too wet, which damages the surface. Old albumen prints were often mounted on a board with a very narrow margin, so ooze probably just didn't matter too much.

    The method described by Reilly involves mounting the print to a thin support, trimming, and then hinge mounting to a heavier support.

    For the time being, I'm trying the more traditional approach of mounting directly to 4-ply. Traditionally, they probably used a book press. I mount to the board, cover the print with wax paper, roll with a large brayer, wipe the ooze, and put the whole thing with a clean sheet of wax paper under some heavy books.

    I also drymount them, and I don't have creases.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
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  2. #22
    Petzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Webb
    If any one produced a SW paper today, I personally would like to see it in graded, rather than VC.
    Think twice about that. Currently, manufacturers have a problem selling one production run of single-weight paper. Now you demand they should produce four or five times that amount. (You're not suggesting everybody should use grade 2, are you?)
    If you're not taking your camera...there's no reason to travel. --APUG member bgilwee

  3. #23

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    Dear All,

    In my 'life before ILFORD' I can remember printing on SW and having to buy a box especially for USA passport photographs, and not very easy to handle as I recall.. but a little easier than trying to photograph a two week baby, full face, with its eyes open as per 'the requirement'... not very Cartier Bresson..but a short pinch did the trick..that kid must be about 26 now...

    Well no surprise ILFORD Photo / HARMAN will not be making a SW product, why... base quantities, one order ( for us ) would be about 20 years supply, thats if you could sell it, which I am afraid you could not ( in my humble opinion ) and if you did make it it would cost at least 3 times what DW costs if you had to coat it at about 10 mpm : Plus as Photo Engineer mentions web breaks are seriously bad news to coaters, its not just the waste, its the cleaning time ( considerable ) and if you have more than one break, you can on occasion lose the whole emulsion melt ( out of time ).

    So we will not, but speak to Fotokemica or Slavich if they really can make it ( and sell it economically ) then good luck to them, you would have to ask for a VC product or just one grade.

    A quick point, sometimes we would be willing to make something, but resellers are very reluctant to stock the more esoteric products ( you have a hard time sometimes ensuring FB is on the shelves ! and not just RC...chemistry too ! ) and you are then left with the specialists like J&C , B&H , Freestyle and the likes of Silverprint in the UK these guys are really great but its another ( possibly slow moving ) product for them.

    As an FYI our paper mill reels are about 2,500 sq mtrs and we would have an ( absolute ) minimum commercial coat of 8* mill reels of paper, equivalent to about 4,000 boxes of 10 x 8 100's, we have done less to maintain products in the range like ILFOBROM GALERIE, but it is very expensive to do, so any new product would have to be commercially viable. Photo Engineer will no doubt agree thats a very, very small run for paper, so we are, and do try to be quite flexible and adaptable


    Sorry

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  4. #24
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Now I See sez the Blind One

    Thanks Simon, and thanks everyone else. Now I have a basic understanding of the problem. Guess I will have to be content to occasionally grouse about those "good ol' days". Double Weight Rules!

    ALH
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

  5. #25
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    A quick reply to Alex Hawley here:

    The supplier of the SW FB paper is reluctant to make it as well, even if the photo manufacturers wanted to coat a product. In fact, even if EK had stayed in the AZO business, getting the support would have been a hassle. I suspect that Fuji will be out of the SW FB market soon as well.

    As for web breaks, imagine a break with paper that literally turns nearly a mile of paper into confetti or waste and sticks to the inside of the machine. That is why coaters keep putty knives handy - to scrape the mess off the machine. I've been there on the "B" trick helping them when my coating caused the problem.

    Now, imagine a film jam. (estar does not normally break) In that case, a high speed coating machine can be seriously damaged.

    Then, coating color, you lose a minimum of 6 melts of emulsion in the case of color paper. And, if you are in the coating room when this happens, the room is filled with 'sticky confetti'. BTST. I'm glad I was wearing a white suit then, or I would have been a mess.

    PE

  6. #26
    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    SW FB paper is difficult to make. It is hard to coat emulsion on it. Imagine making paper towels, but at very high speed and pressure, and then coat on top of it. Then you have wet paper towels.

    No one wants to make SW paper anymore, and I would guess that production will stop soon, even in Russia if they try to speed up the coating machines.

    And if Efke can complain about B&W paper sales, then imagine how bad it was for Kodak.

    PE
    Maybe it's no wonder that companies don't want to make film and paper any longer with ever sagging demand.
    Don Bryant

  7. #27

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    Dear Donbga,

    We love making monochrome !!!!! we are proud to make monochrome, and we are good at it, I guess its the same for the people in the factories at FUJI and KODAK
    and the other coaters, its just that we have to run the business well and every silver coater does face challenges with falling demand, rising raw material prices etc, etc
    but for sure we will be coating silver film and paper for many years.

    Regards

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

  8. #28
    Charles Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petzi
    Think twice about that. Currently, manufacturers have a problem selling one production run of single-weight paper. Now you demand they should produce four or five times that amount. (You're not suggesting everybody should use grade 2, are you?)
    First off Petzi, I do not like the tone of your post! I demanded nothing, I never suggested in any way what amount of paper should be manufactured.
    I am not suggesting that you or anyone else use grade two, but I did for years and never had a complaint from any customer.

    VC paper was invented for people that never really learned how to make good negatives in the first place. No one used or needed a compensating developer, because they knew how to expose any subject so it would print it's best on two or three grade paper. VC has become a crutch for those who choose to reinvent the wheel rather than learn the necessary skill to properly expose and develop film.

    Like my original statement, "I would rather see someone manufacture a SW paper in grades 2 & 3. So Petzi, you give it a second thought, and back off with the smart ass remarks.

    My comment here is my own opinion based an nearly sixty years of Professional Photography!

    Charlie.......................................

  9. #29
    Petzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Webb
    First off Petzi, I do not like the tone of your post!
    ...
    So Petzi, you give it a second thought, and back off with the smart ass remarks.
    Ingenious...
    If you're not taking your camera...there's no reason to travel. --APUG member bgilwee

  10. #30
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Petzi, no one "demanded" anything. In the English language, whether spoken in the UK or USA, a "personal preference" does not mean "demand".

    I too would prefer graded paper. In fact, I prefer and use graded paper in my current work. But by that preference, I don't "demand" that a manufacturer make a product that is currently uneconomical to make.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

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