Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,908   Posts: 1,521,501   Online: 916
      
Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 60
  1. #1
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,895
    Images
    63

    Will There Ever Be Single Weight Paper Again?

    Not to start the debate over single weight versus double weight (we're talkin' fiber here, not RC) - that's been done a thousand times. You either love SW or you don't - and I'm one that does.

    So, with no SW fiber paper on the market, I have to ask: will we ever see it again? I know about the prospective Lodima contact printing paper. I hope it goes. But what about a single weight enlarging paper? Any hope, or am I doomed to DW for ever?
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,904
    i know what you mean alex.
    i love single weight paper too.

    maybe i can tape together all the pieces of test strips and ripped pieces left in empty boxes and get one last sheet to print on ...

    --john

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    768
    Images
    36
    Well, I think it would be available again - at least in Russia it has never disappeared, and Slavich Unibrom paper is made on both SW and DW paper bases. It's an enlarging paper, about 160 ANSI - a bit on a slow side, graded, old-style looking. A reason why it's still made: the main consumer of this paper is an ID photography, where SW paper is required for better mounting of the picture to the ID cover. As I know, the base for Slavich paper is being made in Germany - so maybe there is some German-made SW paper, too?

    Cheers from Moscow, Zhenya

  4. #4
    Petzi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Europe
    Shooter
    Med. Format Pan
    Posts
    857
    Quote Originally Posted by eumenius
    As I know, the base for Slavich paper is being made in Germany - so maybe there is some German-made SW paper, too?
    The base could still be available. At least if you buy a large quantity. This could be a problem for a small manufacturer.

    Agfa also used to make single weight paper (MCC 1) but I think sales were very slow. There is no stock left of it now.
    If you're not taking your camera...there's no reason to travel. --APUG member bgilwee

  5. #5
    Denis P.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Croatia
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    466
    Images
    9
    Efke can make one any time - no problem - I've been bugging them for a while about it now...

    All they need is a guaranteed sale of most of the batch they make

    Mr. Miskec told me "No problem, we can make it any time. But who will buy all of it? We can't make the whole batch and let it rot in the warehouse.... because nobody buys it."

    Maybe a group effort could be pulled off?

    BTW, I still have about 30 sheets of their wonderful P888 single weight. I got a remains of a box - a leftover from a local photo lab. I tried it first last year for an enlargement and didn't like it - too thin. Then a few months later I made my first 4x5 contact on it... Wow!!!!

    Well, I'll keep bugging them at Fotokemika (Efke) about it - but they need to sell more than a few 100-sheet boxes if they are to decide to make it

    Denis

  6. #6
    Petzi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Europe
    Shooter
    Med. Format Pan
    Posts
    857
    Quote Originally Posted by Denis P.
    Efke can make one any time - no problem - I've been bugging them for a while about it now...

    All they need is a guaranteed sale of most of the batch they make
    What is the size of that batch? One master roll I guess? How many m² of paper is that at Efke?

    It would have to be a decent variable contrast paper.

    If only someone could bring back Agfa MCC. *sob*
    If you're not taking your camera...there's no reason to travel. --APUG member bgilwee

  7. #7
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,919
    Images
    65
    SW FB paper is difficult to make. It is hard to coat emulsion on it. Imagine making paper towels, but at very high speed and pressure, and then coat on top of it. Then you have wet paper towels.

    No one wants to make SW paper anymore, and I would guess that production will stop soon, even in Russia if they try to speed up the coating machines.

    And if Efke can complain about B&W paper sales, then imagine how bad it was for Kodak.

    PE

  8. #8
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,895
    Images
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    SW FB paper is difficult to make. It is hard to coat emulsion on it. Imagine making paper towels, but at very high speed and pressure, and then coat on top of it. Then you have wet paper towels.

    No one wants to make SW paper anymore, and I would guess that production will stop soon, even in Russia if they try to speed up the coating machines.

    And if Efke can complain about B&W paper sales, then imagine how bad it was for Kodak.

    PE
    Interesting Ron. However, the two points you made are also the ones that perplex me about this whole issue.

    If SW is harder to make, then why was it the standard of use for so many years? The machinery of a century ago was far less precise in its control of process than what we can attain now. With this in mind, what made so viable over DW for so many years?

    And, just why did the sales drop off? This seems to be a late 20th century occurrence, asy the last 25 years of the century. What were the factors?
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

  9. #9
    Petzi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Europe
    Shooter
    Med. Format Pan
    Posts
    857
    It is obvious that wet paper is prone to tearing, and that this problem is worse when the paper is thinner. The coating was slower in the past as far as I know. Production downtime due to torn paper in the coating machine would be unpopular with manufacturers.

    Photo papers were also a lot more expensive. I think 30 years ago, there were actual cost savings in single weight paper.

    The higher demand for double weight paper nowadays is partly because baryta paper is now primarily used for exhibiton quality prints. In this application, double weight paper is preferred. 30 or 40 years ago, however, people had any and all prints done on baryta paper. In this application, people would mount their images in albums, where thinner paper is better, so the album does not become too thick. So single weight baryta paper was the "bread and butter" paper of the past. This application of baryta paper is now gone, it has been completely replaced by resin coated (PE) paper. (Not that RC paper is much thinner than double-weight baryta, but I think the album manufacturers have adjusted their products to that...)

    Another reason that increased demand for double-weight paper is, that darkroom enthusiasts now dry their prints in the air. They no longer produce glossy prints using a hot plate or drum, like photo labs did in the past. It is obvious that the curl of single weight paper is severe when air dried, while it is a lot more manageable with double weight paper. (I know what I am talking about, I have tried drying single weight FB paper with warm air...)

    The other day I bought myself one of these drum dryers for FB paper, I look forward to producing glossy FB prints soon.
    Last edited by Petzi; 08-07-2006 at 04:11 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    If you're not taking your camera...there's no reason to travel. --APUG member bgilwee

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,904
    hey alex

    i also think that there has been a concerted effort over the years made by the companies that make photo papers to push the double weight papers on the consumer. i may be wrong and i am guessing here, but maybe the big companies allowed for a hefty mark-up for double weight papers and salesmen/women told the consumer that the paper was better all-around, thicker base = better paper ... i was told that it was harder to use single weight papers after i discovered boxes of 11x14 kodabromide when i was in college. "you'll never be able to handle it right, it'll rip or fold and you will be outta luck." i think it is the same kind of a myth, just as it is a myth about large format photography being harder than other formats. people who don't know any better to believe what they are told, especially by sales people who tend to have a case of the "i know everything" from time to time.

    ===
    ===

    i agree petzi single weight paper does curl like mad, but if you take it down when it is "just dry enough" it can be flat without any problems. can't tell you when "just dry enough" is, its kind of like asking a tea(or coffee)-guru how much water is just enough

    ===
    ===

    denis: ekfe single weight, that would be pretty cool!
    i'd love to know more about it if this comes to light ( red light that is! ).

    --john

Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin