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  1. #11
    Samuel B's Avatar
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    During the 90's 400asa film improved alot and was heavily promoted as the best all round film, so the decline in the slower films began then. Now that there is not so much demand for film many supermarkets etc. sometimes only carry 400asa film as it is the best selling film. But 100asa films still seem to be readily available, from most shops that I look at.
    It's a shame it doesn't get used more, the Kodak Gold 100 is a really nice film.

    As for the markets for film, I think the speed a which places like China took up digital cameras meant that film was bypassed and the boom in film demand never happened like it was predicted to.
    Film's not dead, it's just got a negative image.

  2. #12
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Here are some exposures of Portra 160VC, 120 size done using my Bronica ETRSI. I printed them to give about the same neutral and speed and then scanned them in.

    Each picture has the ISO exposure in the title. I went from 25 to 800.

    I did the same with 400 speed film and went from 25 to 1200.

    My conclusion is that you can shoot 160 down to 25 and 400 up to 1200 virtually as is, but with a mild pull or push the results will virtually duplicate the speed you want.

    PE
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 25 for posting.jpg   50 for posting.jpg   100 for posting.jpg   160 for posting.jpg   200 for posting.jpg  


  3. #13

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    I see Tri-X 35mm and 35mm slide film back on the shelves at my local CVS Drug store. Not big quantities, but good to see it again...

    I also saw Tri-X (35mm) for sale at a lot of places when I was on vacation in Hew Hampshire's White Mountains.

  4. #14
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    To start at the end - I still see plenty of film (usually K plus a house brand) in grocery stores, drug stores etc. (I don't shop in WalMart).
    A new Walmart opened up in my city so I went and checked out store. They have some great jeans, made in the USA, and a wall of Fuji Green film. The Goodyear tires were lower in price and every thing that I would buy that is not from China is lower priced. Be a selective buyer. If they would place an order with Kodak for AZO paper and some of that Amidol from China that would be nice. They keep saying just ask for new products; someone should call them on it.

    Curt

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    Yes, I saw this on CNN website a while back - it was based on continuing strong sales of disposables in Japan - mainly to domestic day tourists who forget their cameras and have to buy disposables on-site.
    Believe it or not, but older people are still not so tech-savy. So yes, they are the ones who tend to buy those disposable lens cameras. But I'm not sure if the "strong sales" are the right words to describe the scenes.

    I believe the U.S. is a much bigger market for film and other analog photo supplies. Seriously what you think of is a complete myth from at least a decade ago. Indeed, many Japanese people (have to) order from the store in New York, not from the stores in Tokyo because the Japanese stores don't have a variety of fancy professional items in stock.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by firecracker
    Believe it or not, but older people are still not so tech-savy. So yes, they are the ones who tend to buy those disposable lens cameras. But I'm not sure if the "strong sales" are the right words to describe the scenes.

    I believe the U.S. is a much bigger market for film and other analog photo supplies. Seriously what you think of is a complete myth from at least a decade ago. Indeed, many Japanese people (have to) order from the store in New York, not from the stores in Tokyo because the Japanese stores don't have a variety of fancy professional items in stock.
    Oh please don't start like this. I was simply reporting something I read on CNN's website about 2 months ago (yes, in 2006). Perhaps it was apocryphal or anecdotal. And it's not something " I think"! It's just something I saw.

    Oh, and if you go over to the RFF website you will find a whole group of US members who order film from a supplier in Japan because he has great supplies at such great prices that he can overcome the "shipping cost" differential!

    EDIT: The CNN story was apparently a Reuters pick up:

    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-6081362.html

  7. #17
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I think my point in the post above with the pictures, that you seem to have missed is this; with todays films, with the right process, you can get very high quality pictures with virtually any ISO negative film exposed at over a wide range of ISO values. So, a 400 ISO film will yield excellent pictures down to about 100 ISO, and a 160 ISO film will yield excellent pictures down to 25 ISO.

    As for the market for simple point and shoot disposable cameras, with the low expense of these, knowledgable people have been buying them at their destination while on vacation and sending the processed prints home rather than take film through the airport. Others use them in rugged territory such as on hikes or rafting to aviod damage to expensive cameras. And the improved films and lenses make this possible.

    Young people tend to buy them, as they cannot afford digital cameras nor can they afford expensive analog cameras, but at the supermarket they can buy a camera + film and have the pictures processed and printed next time they shop. So, on the way to the beach for a picnic, they stop to pick up some soda and chips and also pick up a camera.

    The older people who buy them tend to be women who don't like to fuss with complex cameras of any type but want pictures of a special event.

    So, disposable cameras sell well all over the world, sustaining negative film's position even though sales are decreasing rapidly as digital prices drop. Reversal films are a vanishing breed.

    PE

  8. #18

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    In Wal Mart I already see what I'd consider disposable digital cameras for around $20. At this point they are mostly toys for kids, but I'm betting soon you'll see very good digitals that are something like one-use cameras.

    People who have no computer skills can buy the camera and use it like a point-and-shoot, take it back to the store when done shooting 100 or so 4 or 5 mega pixel photos and get back 4x6 prints and a disc of jpgs for not much more than the price of a film disposable with processing.

    I don't think anyone missed the point about modern films - they are great and if you are within a few stops of a proper exposure you still get fine results. Even easier to use than digital. But if what people are saying, much of film sales are now from disposables, that sounds like a bad thing for future film production.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    Oh please don't start like this. I was simply reporting something I read on CNN's website about 2 months ago (yes, in 2006). Perhaps it was apocryphal or anecdotal. And it's not something " I think"! It's just something I saw.

    Oh, and if you go over to the RFF website you will find a whole group of US members who order film from a supplier in Japan because he has great supplies at such great prices that he can overcome the "shipping cost" differential!

    EDIT: The CNN story was apparently a Reuters pick up:

    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-6081362.html
    I didn't mean to start off anything making my previous comment but simply wanted to point out what the market over here is like. And part of why the disposable lens cameras do well is that that's one (or maybe the only) effective way to sell a lot of films. If the users/shoppers prefer to have their films with baseball cards or whatever instead of those easy-to-use disposable lens-camera bodies, I'm sure we will see them in such a way.

    And the U.S. shoppers on the items from Japan are relatively a small number of people I think, compared to the Japanese shoppers on the items from the U.S. How do I know this? Well, I've lived in both countries and seen where this has been going especially since the decline of the demand for the analog photo stuff. The Japanese market has already closed its door to the shoppers. You can say that almost.

    Generally speaking, business reports are fine, but they don't tell whole a lot of truth in the market. Instead they tend to create a certain atmosphere, so that may grab some people's attention. A typical scene of agenda setting, I guess. I think what goes on CNN has been more like a VNR type of a product news, rather than a journalistic one.

  10. #20
    Samuel B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    I think my point in the post above with the pictures, that you seem to have missed is this; with todays films, with the right process, you can get very high quality pictures with virtually any ISO negative film exposed at over a wide range of ISO values. So, a 400 ISO film will yield excellent pictures down to about 100 ISO, and a 160 ISO film will yield excellent pictures down to 25 ISO.

    As for the market for simple point and shoot disposable cameras, with the low expense of these, knowledgable people have been buying them at their destination while on vacation and sending the processed prints home rather than take film through the airport. Others use them in rugged territory such as on hikes or rafting to aviod damage to expensive cameras. And the improved films and lenses make this possible.

    Young people tend to buy them, as they cannot afford digital cameras nor can they afford expensive analog cameras, but at the supermarket they can buy a camera + film and have the pictures processed and printed next time they shop. So, on the way to the beach for a picnic, they stop to pick up some soda and chips and also pick up a camera.

    The older people who buy them tend to be women who don't like to fuss with complex cameras of any type but want pictures of a special event.

    So, disposable cameras sell well all over the world, sustaining negative film's position even though sales are decreasing rapidly as digital prices drop. Reversal films are a vanishing breed.

    PE
    Yes it's true about disposable cameras, they still sell well, I still get quite a few through the lab, they are very popular for kids to take on school camps, or to the beach or snow. I used one the other day which was loaded with old agfa film, and the results were very good.

    As to weather they will be replaced with disposable d*****l cameras, well while film and processing remain relatively cheap and available it doesn't make sense to me, but that probably means we will be seeing d*****l disposables on the shelves soon .

    Yes modern colour neg films have good exposure lattitude, but of course prints from 100asa film look different to those from 400asa film, although I guess the average happy snapper probably wouldn't notice, or care about the nuances different types of film give, so usually 400asa is the film of choice.
    Film's not dead, it's just got a negative image.

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