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  1. #141
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, all you people who complain about the problem of cooking your own emulsion seem to have forgotten that this will in fact create a new, albeit small market.

    I can't cook an emulsion, nor do I wish to. But when people like PE can ramp up enough production to sell their precoated ISO 12 film or emulsion kits at the Formulary, there will still be people ready to buy them. Granted, the number of people doing it might not be larger than the number of Pt/Pd printers, but there will still be some material for the less technically inclined.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  2. #142
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    PE,

    I believe you may be right about answering someone else on the thread, my apologies. Seems easy to loose track of the thread at times.

    My 2 cents on it is that I think talk of emulsion making, personalized coating techniques, etc.. and the like that can be done at home IF film dies should be kept in the forum for which it was apperently created, because, in reality, this is not going to be possible for a great majority of the folks that participate in this community. I don't think "Product Availability" is the place, as I look there to learn about news (good or bad) about the products that I buy, and how that news is going to affect photography in my life.

    But I agree with you, I did like the suggestion about somehow getting folks like Kodak (and others) involved with APUG. I realize that it may say a great deal that more are not invloved, like Ilford.

    Anyway, all in the interest and love for traditional processes ,

    Chuck

  3. #143

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    I skipped the middle 13 pages, but pardon me if this has been mentioned before, either on this thread or some other place...but is there any list of available products (film, paper, etc) from the many companies still at work w/a film product line. ...and is this list kept up to date (products being dropped, products being re-introduced)? Include camera equipment in this. This information needs to be available to give out to new photogs or those coming back to film. I don't know if a committee of apug members can be formed to come up with this info...while not actually meeting up to discuss this...but I'd volunteer/help out if help is needed.

    drew

  4. #144

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    I like Drew's suggestion about a current list of products available, both film and cameras. That way new and current photogs can see what is available for their usage. Might stimulate some usage of lesser known products and manufacturers by those of us not totally immersed in the hobby/ business.

  5. #145
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew B. View Post
    I skipped the middle 13 pages, but pardon me if this has been mentioned before, either on this thread or some other place...but is there any list of available products (film, paper, etc) from the many companies still at work w/a film product line.
    By itself, the Freestyle catalog is probably the biggest such list I know of. Adding B&H's, and J&C, Photographer's Formulary, Fotoimpex, Silverprint, Retrophotographic, Fothuis, FrugalPhotographer would give you all bases covered.

    Plus, the Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, and other manufacturer's website have up-to-date information on their whole line of products, including some discontinued information. I find it astonishing that sometimes people wonder whether film XYZ is produced or not when they could just look up the manufacturer and figure it out themselves.

    I don't think another half-baked and badly maintained list will be useful. Face it, we all know there won't be enough updates to this list, and it will forever stay in beta. Plus, the whole point of having a list of product is to buy them. Resellers and manufacturers have an incentive to sell. Ergo, the sum of their catalogs is the sum of what is available.

    On the other hand, an archive that includes past and expired products, for historical and reference purpose would be an interesting addition for some. It's like having a dictionary: some of the words in it have long been discontinued, but there's no reason to throw knowledge away.

    EDIT: I don't want to sound like I'm spitting in the soup, I'm just pointing out that the information is out there. If you want to make a list, you should model it along the lines of a critical bibliography: something that would help orient product choices rather than listing mere availabilty. How useful is it to know merely that Portra 160NC is in production if you don't know what it's good for? The Kodak data sheet provide enough info already, but aggregating a bit more practical experience would be very useful for some.

    That's a huge editing effort, if you want my opinion.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  6. #146
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    Hello,

    I dont really am worried over the future of film, but the future is at a crossroad. And when changes settles and the digitalizing of kodak is over, companys that still make film (i hope kodak will too) can addapt production after the demand. Those companys can work to get their profit and make more film.

    Its like this all the time (not that i´ve been around but) vinyl to cd, radio to tv, tubes to transistors, analouge synth to digital synth and so on. None of that has disapeared but there where probably alot of worried ppl at that time to. Tubes that where discontiniued ages ago have started in production again, and now its the standard i audio and recording world.



    I think the market will find it self sooner or later. especially when the digital hype settles and young folks that grew up with digital cameras begin to explore and find this wonderful thing called film.

    In worst case everybody at APUG can pitch in a couple of grands and buy a coating machine and hire Photo engineer

    Cheers Johannes

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    I think the overall philosophy of the country, Japan, may keep Fuji producing film longer than Kodak. There is a strong tradition to preserve "traditional" methods of doing things. That is just my impression. Move forward but don't eliminate the past.

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by PHOTOTONE View Post
    I think the overall philosophy of the country, Japan, may keep Fuji producing film longer than Kodak. There is a strong tradition to preserve "traditional" methods of doing things. That is just my impression. Move forward but don't eliminate the past.
    I don't think that impression is really sustainable by the facts. Mamiya and Yashica are out of the camera business. Konica/Minolta has dropped out of photography alltogether. Nikon is gradually exiting analog photography, as is Pentax. Fuji is discontinuing some of their B&W paper lines and Mistubishi is out of this business. Only the LF camera makers really seem to be holding their own. And I suppose the same could be said of Cosina.

    As for Fuji - they invested several hundred million to expand their Greenwood, SC film-producing plant and then closed the plant the next year.

    I could go on...

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by PHOTOTONE View Post
    I think the overall philosophy of the country, Japan, may keep Fuji producing film longer than Kodak. There is a strong tradition to preserve "traditional" methods of doing things. That is just my impression. Move forward but don't eliminate the past.
    My impresssion is that when Fuji dies in the Japanese market, that's the end of everything for the people in Japan. Don't get blinded by some flashy new products by Fuji. That is not much of a good sign, but rather a posing, because the number of their production is so limited, and so is the sales. In reality, the Japanese amateur photo market SEEMS shrinking a lot faster than any other ones as far as I know (based on the trends and changes in the photo schools, camera clubs, etc). And some pros here that some amateurs have admired for longer than the last quarter of the century are now the leading figures of the new digital products. :o

    So, I just don't know if there's any "philosophy" to protect and/or sustain one particular company in any business.

    Someone on this thread has mentioned about the use of motion-picture films for still films, and quite frankly I belive there is a fair use in the U.S.movie industry, and that may not go down to zero. But the Japanese movie industry is not the same. We've got a lot of HD and other video-format movies today, and almost no feature films that come out in threaters use any film any more. This industry has moved pretty quickly because I believe it never had too much money to spend on any art and luxury (unless your name was Kurosawa). It's a pretty small and cheap industry, and you can sort of tell by looking at what most movie crews eat at lunch with their tiny lunch boxes...

    So, unless Fuji finds its home somewhere else, I don't know what will happen, but that doesn't mean they are going as fast or slow as most people think. I'm just giving you my thoughts here to get a better perspetive.

    Meanwhile it seems, it really seems that Ilford COULD have a better chance selling more in this market if the pricing and the selection of its products WERE more user-friendly.

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by firecracker View Post
    My impresssion is that when Fuji dies in the Japanese market, that's the end of everything for the people in Japan. Don't get blinded by some flashy new products by Fuji. That is not much of a good sign, but rather a posing, because the number of their production is so limited, and so is the sales. In reality, the Japanese amateur photo market SEEMS shrinking a lot faster than any other ones as far as I know (based on the trends and changes in the photo schools, camera clubs, etc). And some pros here that some amateurs have admired for longer than the last quarter of the century are now the leading figures of the new digital products. :o

    So, I just don't know if there's any "philosophy" to protect and/or sustain one particular company in any business.

    Someone on this thread has mentioned about the use of motion-picture films for still films, and quite frankly I belive there is a fair use in the U.S.movie industry, and that may not go down to zero. But the Japanese movie industry is not the same. We've got a lot of HD and other video-format movies today, and almost no feature films that come out in threaters use any film any more. This industry has moved pretty quickly because I believe it never had too much money to spend on any art and luxury (unless your name was Kurosawa). It's a pretty small and cheap industry, and you can sort of tell by looking at what most movie crews eat at lunch with their tiny lunch boxes...

    So, unless Fuji finds its home somewhere else, I don't know what will happen, but that doesn't mean they are going as fast or slow as most people think. I'm just giving you my thoughts here to get a better perspetive.

    Meanwhile it seems, it really seems that Ilford COULD have a better chance selling more in this market if the pricing and the selection of its products WERE more user-friendly.

    While I agree with some of what you say, I travel enough and still find a great number of people using film cameras. There are alot more people using medium format that werent several years ago, probably this is due to the fact the cost of the gear is getting cheaper. All the pros I know in this area are using Medium or Large format film cameras. None of them are using digital, they say the dont feel the quality is there yet.

    The guy at the Shinjuku Yodobashi said they are selling quite a few Mamiya 7IIs, actually currently back ordered on some of the parts, (mainly due to the sales), and at Fujiya Camera in Nakano, they said they are selling Large format enlargers as fast as they come in.

    I think we will see still see a further contraction of the market here, but I think Fuji will be okay. At least they seem to be trying.

    Lets hope for the best.

    Gary



 

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