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  1. #21
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post
    I agree with Gordon who agrees with Art.

    Sometimes I think folk here actually want Kodak to cease making film just so they can say: "See, I told you so!".

    The problem with that is that it is really just cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    More like shooting themselves in the head! If they shot themselves in the foot they would limp around and blame the gun and ammo manufacturers!

    I think that these anti-Kodak folks are just a bunch of attention whores.
    It is easy to tear down a company, but I don't see them marketing a better product!

    No offense to legitimate complaints about companies discontinuing a film product or size. This is aimed at the ranters who just fill up the bandwidth with the same repetitive crap.
    Last edited by Sirius Glass; 01-25-2007 at 02:21 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post
    Sometimes I think folk here actually want Kodak to cease making film just so they can say: "See, I told you so!".
    I agree with Georges who agrees with Gordon, etc.

    It's a tired trope here to say "getting rid of the yellow father" or whatnot. Despite their PR dept not being hip enough to film for us, despite their CEO seeming to live on another planet, they are still producing excellent products, B&W and most importantly color. Some of us will just never like the color rendition of Fuji films, it's as simple as that.

    Kodak isn't a dirty word for which one should wash their mouth after pronouncing. It makes me cringe to see people doing the "de-kodakification" of their darkroom on ideological rather than practical principles.

    We would never have mass photography without a huge militaro-industrial complex in the first place, so making someone the "good guys" versus the "bad guys" in film production is just plain boyscout wishful thinking.

    It's been said over and over again that maybe Kodak could benefit from some PR rep surfing the net forums like Simon, and David Goldfarb said in another thread that there is one doing so in 8mm forums. Who will make that happen for still photo on APUG? Why do we keep prentending to give the finger to The Man by spiting Kodak?
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  3. #23
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    APUG does seem hostile to Kodak.

    The overwhelming tone is anti-Kodak and has been for quite some time.

    I agree with the comment that people seem to want to see Kodak leave analog so they can say "I told you so". How many of you would work for little or no pay? Kodak will not and when customers go to less expensive products, then Kodak stops making theirs.

    Remember that many of these smaller companies did not have to do R&D on Dektol, HC110, XTOL, Liquid Fix et. Kodak published formulas for many of these and now they are being produced by others with no overhead for the R&D that made them possible.

    Oh well, perhaps my comments are useless in this venue. BTW, I am probably the only person on APUG who has spoken to Antonio Perez face to face and addressed the issue of analog photography.

    So...

    Anyhow. Have a nice day.

    PE

  4. #24
    JLP
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    Oh well, perhaps my comments are useless in this venue.
    Don't think they are PE, your insight and experience get's at least my respect and i could not agree with you more.
    I have and will continue to praise the Kodak products that i buy and use cause i can't find anything better.
    Those of us who do like the products just need to speak up and get over this "Bad boy using Kodak" attitude and turn the threads bashing Kodak into the oposite.


    jan

  5. #25
    BradS's Avatar
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    Yeah, I too find it difficult to understand peoples' motivation for Kodak bashing. I mean, if you don't like their products or, their prices....fine. Go use something else. I think Kodak's traditional products are first class.

    Ron, I personally find your insight, stories, experience and expertise enormously valuable, interesting and engaging. I count you among a handful of participants on this venue in this category. Just thought you should know.

  6. #26
    Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    What pains me is I love shooting with Kodak Tri-x, Plus-x, Kodachrome 64, E 100 VS and processing B&W film with HC110. Truthfully if the above products are available as long as I can lift a camera up, I will be buying them.

    It comes down to perception, as a consumer (the Public relations hat is off) I get the impression that Eastman Kodak does not value my business and sees me (and other film shooters) as an anachronism. So I am left more of an ambivalence, love the product, the orgranization that makes/markets them not so much.

    Bill

  7. #27
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments guys.

    Basically, Kodak 'grew up' dealing not with people but with other big companies which were their customers. You went to a small film store, but they dealt with the wholesaler who dealt with Kodak.

    In this new market, Kodak has not yet learned to respond to individuals, and what is worse, due to shrinkage of staff, fewer people have the time to attend to the customers.

    Kodak knows how to deal with Walmart and Ritz and places like that though.

    PE

  8. #28
    Gatsby1923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    APUG does seem hostile to Kodak.

    The overwhelming tone is anti-Kodak and has been for quite some time.

    I agree with the comment that people seem to want to see Kodak leave analog so they can say "I told you so". How many of you would work for little or no pay? Kodak will not and when customers go to less expensive products, then Kodak stops making theirs.

    Remember that many of these smaller companies did not have to do R&D on Dektol, HC110, XTOL, Liquid Fix et. Kodak published formulas for many of these and now they are being produced by others with no overhead for the R&D that made them possible.

    Oh well, perhaps my comments are useless in this venue. BTW, I am probably the only person on APUG who has spoken to Antonio Perez face to face and addressed the issue of analog photography.

    So...

    Anyhow. Have a nice day.

    PE

    Amen P.E. As long as I can get Dektol, HC110, TMax Films, etc I will shop with Kodak. Rather than complain about say losing Kodacrhome 200 go buy some. If say next friday 10,000 of us bought Kodachrome 200 and continued to do so it would not be discontinued. That all being said we won't do that. I have no use for that product and I would assume few of the world's film shooters do. Thats why it was discontinued.

    Few people used AZO so same deal. I Lament the passing of Kodak papers but most of my photo friends used Ilford and Agfa.

    Just my rant on the subject

    Dave M
    I don't know where I'm going, but I'm on my way.
    Carl Sandburg

  9. #29
    KEK
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    I don't get the Kodak bashing either it's a first rate product.Kodak is only doing what they think the shareholders want right or wrong. Use it while you can.

    Ron I'd also like to say your the bomb, you've probably forgotton more about photo chemistry then any of us will ever know. I love reading the threads on your testing of the emulsions.

  10. #30

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    It has only been in the few years that I stopped using Kodak. The main reason is that in my market it was hard to get many of the products that I liked, (polycontast 4 and polymax paper) and others products that I liked, such as Microdol and Xtol ,Kodak stopped making the sizes that worked best for me. I have can only recall one issue (very recent) with Kodak quailty control. I dont think of my self as anti Kodak, I really miss Kodak papers, and will miss Kodak films as well if Kodak films goes way. The market is changing and considering my volume of use and budget I found a few alternatives that fit my needs, just as Kodak makes desicions based on the best intrest of Kodak I need to make my desisions based on what is working for me.

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