Kodak Clarification

[Photo Engineer]

Hi Helen,

Yes, you're right about the analog guys - and perhaps that's part of the "issue" folks have here?

Kodak is apparently a "house divided" these days.

The new "digi kids on the block" who are running the "other side" of Kodak are hip to the web and it's marketing prowess (I figure these are the folks that were behind that YouTube video that we all became aware of here).

Unfortunately, on "our side" are those guys in the chem labs who are still wearing white coats and thinking that everyone knows they're smart and make good products - so why bother with things like the internet.

Can you imagine how quickly Kodak could rejuvenate film photography if it did a "street guerilla" marketing campaign including a couple of YouTube posts?

George;

I wear a white coat here in my DR and did quite often at Kodak when in the lab. I was in a chem lab of some sort or another daily for over 32 years as were most of my analog associates at EK.

We were computer savvy and literate. In fact, I teach Visual BASIC, C++ and assembly coding and have done so locally and at Kodak for nearly 20 years. We wrote programs for Linux, Qnx and other operating systems to run our processes which were all computer operated. And, we networked them together and communitcated encrypted formulas world wide.

My work was so confidential that we were on a special Token Ring network within Kodak that isolated us via a firewall from the rest of Kodak to prevent access of the emulsion formulas, but final formulas were placed on stand-alone computers with a unique OS to isolate them even further.

I think you should understand that Kodak is a house united in their knowledge of computers, photography (imaging) and color. They are divided in marketing strategy. Many people in R&D move and have moved between analog and digital due to the many cross disciplines in these fields.

PE

[copake_ham]

George;

I wear a white coat here in my DR and did quite often at Kodak when in the lab. I was in a chem lab of some sort or another daily for over 32 years as were most of my analog associates at EK.

We were computer savvy and literate. In fact, I teach Visual BASIC, C++ and assembly coding and have done so locally and at Kodak for nearly 20 years. We wrote programs for Linux, Qnx and other operating systems to run our processes which were all computer operated. And, we networked them together and communitcated encrypted formulas world wide.

My work was so confidential that we were on a special Token Ring network within Kodak that isolated us via a firewall from the rest of Kodak to prevent access of the emulsion formulas, but final formulas were placed on stand-alone computers with a unique OS to isolate them even further.

I think you should understand that Kodak is a house united in their knowledge of computers, photography (imaging) and color. They are divided in marketing strategy. Many people in R&D move and have moved between analog and digital due to the many cross disciplines in these fields.

PE

PE,

I wasn't doubting you or the "traditional" folks at Kodak's computer knowledge.

By "computer savvy" I mean the abiilty to use the internet as a means of creating marketing "buzz". Often the most capable programmers are unable to do this because it requires a different type of skillset.

The big joke about YouTube is that people still think it is dominated by the "home video" crowd sharing videos of stupid pet tricks. In fact, it has become a major advertising tool for what are known as "guerilla marketers".

In all honesty, I seriously doubt the film marketers at Kodak know what "guerilla marketing" even is, must less how to use it.

[wirehead]

The big joke about YouTube is that people still think it is dominated by the "home video" crowd sharing videos of stupid pet tricks. In fact, it has become a major advertising tool for what are known as "guerilla marketers".

More lile a site that advertizing workerbees can use when the boss drops in on them and says "Hey, loyal lackey, I've heard about this 'guerilla marketing' thing. You are going to get me one o' those" to drop uninspired halfassed attempts at guerilla marketing.

:P

[eddym]

My work was so confidential that we were on a special Token Ring network within Kodak that isolated us via a firewall from the rest of Kodak to prevent access of the emulsion formulas, but final formulas were placed on stand-alone computers with a unique OS to isolate them even further.

A Tolkein Ring???? Are you... Gandalf???

[Photo Engineer]

PE,

I wasn't doubting you or the "traditional" folks at Kodak's computer knowledge.

By "computer savvy" I mean the abiilty to use the internet as a means of creating marketing "buzz". Often the most capable programmers are unable to do this because it requires a different type of skillset.

The big joke about YouTube is that people still think it is dominated by the "home video" crowd sharing videos of stupid pet tricks. In fact, it has become a major advertising tool for what are known as "guerilla marketers".

In all honesty, I seriously doubt the film marketers at Kodak know what "guerilla marketing" even is, must less how to use it.

George;

They do know about all of this stuff and are quite savvy, but being allowed to use it agressively or having the time is probably out of the question. We were discouraged from doing the sort of thing I'm doing right now, when I worked at Kodak.

Any discussion of film topics outside of the company was prohibited and if any contact took place it was to be reported.

PE

[Photo Engineer]

A Tolkein Ring???? Are you... Gandalf???

I feel more like the Wizard of ID. And, as I'm sure you saw, that is a TOKEN ring.

PE

[eddym]

I feel more like the Wizard of ID. And, as I'm sure you saw, that is a TOKEN ring.

PE

I did, of course, but I just couldn't resist!

[Uncle Bill]

Bill, this is just plain WRONG. Kodak has a link to its press centre, which is where news articles, releases, etc., are posted. This is a common practice for corporate websites. Whether you think it is properly highlighted, whether it is the "right" way to do it or not is another question.

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQueri...requestid=5196

Kodak is in a lot of markets, and is much, much larger than Ilford. While I admire Ilford as a company, am amazed at their participation in this forum, love many of their products and have used them longer than you have been an adult, making a judgment such as you have based on an incorrect statement about them not having a page for news stories ... well, I am confused.

How many of you here have taken the time to pick up the phone and talk to Kodak? There are real people, in Rochester, who answer the phone in the professional film products division. When people here were bashing Kodak because they hadn't gotten their free Portra yet, or got the wrong items (from a free offer), I simply picked up the phone and talked to a young man who was more than happy to communicate that people could call them and get any issues sorted out. I talked to a real person who supports film and communicated a very simple message: "We want people to try the film."

I am no Kodak cheerleader. While my favourite film of all time was K25, and my current choice for "best" is K64, the best b&w paper I used was Brilliant, and I use Fuji, Ilford and other products now. I mourn the passing of Agfa.

And no, their PR/marketing is not perfect. But when everyone who bitches about Kodak becomes a perfect photographer, then I'll take it more seriously.

But damn it, if people just hang on the net and bitch about things without picking up the phone to a TOLL FREE NUMBER to the very people who can deliver your message to decision makers, well then, I have no sympathy.

Maybe PE and I should get together for a coupla drinks soon.

I stand corrected in regards to the news section of their website.

[PHOTOTONE]

You know, in days past maybe there was a need for industrial secrets regarding emulsion coating, but consider, nowadays, there really isn't any other manufacturer that could coat film in the same manner that Kodak does, particularly color stocks, therefore there is hardly any need for "spy like" secrecy. This "closed system" of industrial design is what has caused the loss of many traditional crafts.

[Photo Engineer]

You know, in days past maybe there was a need for industrial secrets regarding emulsion coating, but consider, nowadays, there really isn't any other manufacturer that could coat film in the same manner that Kodak does, particularly color stocks, therefore there is hardly any need for "spy like" secrecy. This "closed system" of industrial design is what has caused the loss of many traditional crafts.

Well, guess what, fellow APUG members who make emulsions will not exchange information. I have posted more here on that subject than anyone else. I gave a fellow member detailed information on spectral sensitizing dye sources and he refused to reciprocate with any information whatsoever.

Talk about Kodak and its secrets. I laugh. On line information is more rare than Kodak information. I can go to GEH and read all of George Eastman's formulas in his own handwriting.

PE