Whats the deal with the large existing stocks of discontinued film?
Comments have been made about "certain" deceased manufacturers and the large remaining stocks of finished goods that have been oversupplying the market for some time. I am curious about this concept.
For example: Did Agfa continue to run its coating lines 24/7 even in the light of declining sales? Did this result in warehouse after warehouse being crammed with product they couldn't sell?
I wonder if this is the same as Forte? Do they, too, have huge warehouses of product unsold?
If there are large stocks then they are old. How old is anyones guess and how good again is a guess. See my earlier post on another thread.
I bought up a big pile of APX 400 recently which expires some time in 2010 in the unlikely event I haven't used it before then.
"He took to writing poetry and visiting the elves: and though many shook their heads and touched their foreheads and said 'Poor old Baggins!' and though few believed any of his tales, he remained very happy till the end of his days, and those were extraordinarily long "- JRR Tolkien, ' The Hobbit '.
That is 3 years, and considering that it may have been made 2 years ago or more, that is a total of nearly 6 years. Rather long, I suspect and I also suspect that it may have been redated. I have at least one reliable report from someone who scraped off the label on a box of some sheet film (IIRC) and found the same label underneath with a different and much earlier expiration date.
You have no idea how this was kept after any of these companies went belly up either.
I suggest that all of you buying Forte, Agfa and other films and papers from the companies that have ceased production, keep them well refrigerated or frozen until use. You might consider this for any discontinued product. This is just to be on the safe side.
Forte haven't got any film or paper in stock as the factory only manufactured for order at least for the last two or thre years or we could say since the take over of the Csurgo group.
If you find relabelling the date on film than it's do to a dealer.
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A dealer cannot put on an original label from the factory, and anyhow I didn't say it was Forte. I do know others have posted information that there were large inventories held by several companies. After all, where is all of the old Agfa film coming from?
Yes PE, that is a very good question.
Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
The Agfa APX film is labeled with an expiriy date 5 years after manufacture, and it has excellent keeping qualities, which is why they could do that. This is with storage at room temperature. I am sure it will keep a long time after that if kept cool or frozen. The film was manufactured in fairly large quantity to customer orders before they shut down the coating line. Unfortunately, the customer (distributor) didn't order 120 film, ony 135.
Amateur color film was dated 3 years after manufacture, and the freshest I have seen is dated 01/2009. It was also manufactured to order before the shutdown.
Professional color film is dated even shorter (2 years). It was guaranteed to be 1/6 of an f-stop within spec. The final Agfa professional color film (RSX, Optima, XPS) will expire end of this year.
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Don't take much notice of expiry dates. Think they are conservative to a large extent. Have used B&W film 8years out of date [stored at room temp in plastic tub] and E6 5years out of date[ fridge stored after I baught it but no idea how it was stored before purchase, as baught at camera fair] with exelent results. OK would not use it for anything critical but as fun fodder no problem.
Films were Fuji, Agfa, Kodak and Ilford in both 120 and 35mm, all were home developed with no problems I could attribute to the films age, the odd underexposed frame being due to metering error on my behalf.
It of course depends on the price, no one payes top price to take a chance on their film but if the price is right then give it a go.
It sounds pretty fishy.
Originally Posted by PHOTOTONE
I contacted AgfaPhoto USA on the day AgfaPhoto went into liquidation (Agfa Photo USA was a separate company, by the way, and not a subsidiary) and they told me they NEVER placed an order to AgfaPhoto for B&W film or paper during the company's short life. Distributors never saw the need because of all the inventory out there.
I have some Agfa APX 400 film that has an October, 2010 expiration date. Given that Agfa APX films are dated 65 months from tim of manufacture - this would have been the last run.
The really strange thing about those APX boxes are that there is no AgfaPhoto on it - just Agfa.
I have no idea what amount of film/paper AgfaPhoto produced. But it is extremely expensive to lay off workers in Germany. Maybe they kept producing because, well, that's all they really COULD do.
Forte may be another matter. Their reasons for ceasing manufacture look kind of odd:
a) Who was the French B&W film and paper manufacturer that went bankrupt? The original Bergger went bankrupt a dozen years ago and it's Forte that manufactured all their stuff since from the old recipes.
b) Assuming Agfa was the German manufacturer that they cite as having failed - would this really affect Forte? Agfa paper stocks were bought up immediately...this would have had little effect on their paper demand after a couple months. Sure Forte made film - but they sold a lot more paper.
I'm sort of inclined to believe that the owners of Forte are really just looking to sell their land off to a redeveloper. Who knows...
If that IS the case - I doubt you'll see any investment group that wants to continue operations make an offer that the present owners will find attractive. Hope I'm wrong.