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  1. #21
    jstraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnywalker View Post
    Either people will be happy with the "new" product or they won't. Give the guy a break. He's managing the situation and keeping those who might be interested informed. He is not asking for your advice or input.
    Too bad, if he circulates information publicly...there will be a public response.

    I wish Bergger well. I hope whatever product they're selling when the dust settles is terrific and that I want to use it. I mean that.

    There is nothing unique to Bergger about the corporate obfuscation that I reacted to, it's what I'd expect. But I don't have to respect it or be fooled by it.
    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In velit arcu, consequat at, interdum sit amet, consequat in, quam.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by uraniumnitrate View Post
    That is not so!
    Having used both Bergger and Forte papers I can tell you that they are different papers. I have tested them side by side, at the same exact time and got very different results in speed, contrast,paper color and surface texture for each of them.

  3. #23
    JBrunner's Avatar
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    I vote that all these odiferous industry politico hearsay threads get their own forum, next to doom and gloom, down by the soapbox. It could be called "rumors and other posturings"
    Last edited by JBrunner; 02-06-2007 at 12:28 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #24
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uraniumnitrate View Post
    Not against the French at least it wasn't my intention as I have very good friends who is French but against people who don’t know when it’s time to tell the truth. And if you had fallowed other threads you might find that we were ruff on others too like Maco for example even Ilford who has nothing to do with this at all.
    Sure, but my point remains that despite your criticisms of Bergger et al. you do not seem to be intent on bringing these fine folks to the debate here and let them show us we're right or wrong.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  5. #25
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr82bart View Post
    Isn't it a wonder why APUG is getting a reputation as a website forum for zealots. Someone asked why more executives of other film and paper companies don't respond here. Well, you just have to read the latest posts.

    I'm sure even Simon is shaking his head at some of the statements and hypotheticals being written on APUG. Armchair critics who know everything and can do everything better than those that run multi-million dollar companies. Sure and sad.

    Regards, Art.
    Also, companies do not come here because nobody ASKS them to. Those who browse the forums probably just run away screaming from the zealots.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    Also, companies do not come here because nobody ASKS them to. Those who browse the forums probably just run away screaming from the zealots.

    I know more than one manufacturer who takes this view -- and several distributors too. This makes Ilford's stance all the more admirable, but we should not automatically condemn those who do not participate in these forums.

    Cheers,

    R.

  7. #27
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
    I know more than one manufacturer who takes this view -- and several distributors too. This makes Ilford's stance all the more admirable, but we should not automatically condemn those who do not participate in these forums.

    Cheers,

    R.
    I agree with you, I think one of the big PR games to be played these days is about direct public contact. I remember in 1996 how "cool" it was for the heads of state to have an official email address at which you could perhaps reach them directly...

    All the newspapers are opening discussion forums to each news, organisations are looking for "our comments", even the little place where I work has a web site that is begging for people to come and say their wise words to us. In parallel, a lot of high-traffic specialized communities are sprouting, taking the role of informal focus groups. But they're messier than a focus group, more vocal, and less statistically harmonized.

    It's not exactly a swamp, but neither is it a glacial lake.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  8. #28
    Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    Also, companies do not come here because nobody ASKS them to. Those who browse the forums probably just run away screaming from the zealots.
    Unfortunately this is pretty much the case with any large internet forum. There will always be x amount of armchair critics per 100 users. That number is probably lower here than some places but they can still be a highly vocal bunch so seem much larger. If I wasn't admin I'd add every single one to my ignore list but oh well.. I've mentioned in the past everyone here has a choice to HELP traditional photography along and be positive. Many chose to do exactly that and they have my utmost respect. For the others they will criticize everything they can and if they run traditional photography into the ground they will criticize everyone for not doing enough..

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    Sure, but my point remains that despite your criticisms of Bergger et al. you do not seem to be intent on bringing these fine folks to the debate here and let them show us we're right or wrong.
    I admire Simon and PE because they are here even if discussions go ruff! Probably and it’s the only way to do it to be close to your costumers even if they are here to watch their investment or interest. That is brilliant in my eye and just show that they are interested in some ways. We don’t had to be friends but their being here shows something.

    I have wrote earlier that if Mr Gerard or J&C come out here and says that he need money in order to save Forte I would even buy some shares with out any hesitation

    It’s not my do to bring out others here it must be their interest to do so and it’s up to them and not up to me or us for that matter. It's a free world we living in.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    Also, companies do not come here because nobody ASKS them to. Those who browse the forums probably just run away screaming from the zealots.
    Another problem is if one of their spokespersons comes unsolicited, the same group of zealots will label them shills for their products. This happened when one supplier (who actually happened to be a advertiser here posted a review and people were all over the poor guy for shilling - mostly because the same group of people liked another product more - I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls his ad from the site next year). They lose either way with these people.

    Worse, is that Sean loses. Something zealots never think about - only themselves.

    Regards, Art.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

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