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  1. #21
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLewis View Post
    Just like when you say a corporation has no human-side, they also have no desire to operate at less than optimal profit margin.
    Do we have voices at Kodak and Ilford? Yes. They live in your wallet. Kodak is not going to produce film at a 5% profit margin, when they can produce digigizmos at a 10% margin. (I made those numbers up, but you get the point) Unless sales of digital products drops to a point where they are less profitable then film products, (or costs of production increase) it's only a matter of time before they sell the recipes to the film stuff to someone else and bid farewell to the film users.

    Guess what. Ilford is not in the charity business, either, unless they have some not-for-profit status that I'm not aware of. Without knowing the financials of Ilford, I will venture to say that they will continue to sell film-based products, so long as those products remain their highest profit margin product. May not be long before the competition ceases to exist, and it'll be much easier for Ilford to produce at larger margins, but never assume you have a voice with them, any more so than you lack a voice with Kodak.
    Shareholders are the only real voices of influence. (Maybe we can organize ourselves and buy 51% of Eastman Kodak!)

    For the record, I'm going to continue to buy and use Kodak b&w films, D-76, Dektol, fixer and stop bath until they are no longer available.
    Agreed
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  2. #22
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    Well, for those that disagree with me consider this.

    If you don't buy Kodak analog products, you are fulfilling Perez' theory that the analog market is insignificant, and so you help his premise that 'analog is dead'.

    It has no effect on him but bolster him and increase his bonus because what he said appears to be turning out to be true.

    He lays off the little people in the analog department, and they are the ones hurt.

    So...... You take it from there.

    I do buy Ilford film. It is excellent, but I buy all color and 50% of my B&W from Kodak and the other 50% of my B&W from Ilford.

    PE

  3. #23
    jd callow's Avatar
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    I'm having a hard time understanding this thread It sounds like an argument about an unsupported rumor that, even if true wouldn't mean much.

    Can someone correct me?

    Colour is 80-90% Kodak. I bought 4x5 Fuji 64T because I prefer it over Kodak’s T balanced reversal sheet film and NPL for mixed lighting. Otherwise I buy all Kodak.

    B&W is also mostly Kodak.

    So I'm SOL without big yellow and tend to support Ron in his statements.

    *

  4. #24
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    I have e mailed Scott R. DiSabato, Marketing Manager, Professional Film Photographer Trade Relations at Kodak, the posted question. I am sure he will bring some clarification.
    [FONT="Arial Black"][/FONT]

  5. #25
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    Well all I can say is 1 chain of stores seems to be effected by the info they have given out on Kodak. I called another big lab in Vancouver and they are also effected.

    The one chain says the distributor is no longer dealing in Canada. Another store says this:

    Basically what this means is most smaller outfits that are used to dealing with Kodak directly are now having to go through a select distributor(s) that brings in Kodak materials. Some stores do not like this way of dealing with Kodak and are thinking of dumping Kodak as a result. Since I work for a big corporation that has a big account with Kodak, we are allowed to deal directly with Kodak and get our products direct. Smaller companies cannot do that. They now have to go through a middle man which decides what will be brought in to sell at their price. This is info I got from a big lab here in Vancouver. I also found out by this lab TMAX films in 120 were discontinued as well. So add that to the list.
    Last edited by braxus; 03-26-2007 at 07:31 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #26
    Rob Skeoch's Avatar
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    I agree with Braxus. Thats what I found when I tried to deal with Kodak and sell sheet film. They're not interested in servicing small accounts and put you in touch with a middleman.
    Of course now the pricing becomes so high it's not worth having inventory.
    I've had much better luck selling Ilford products and Kentmere black and white papers.
    Personally I liked the Kodak films and chemicals but I've totally switched to Ilford. They just seem more committed somehow.
    Rob Skeoch
    This is my blog http://thepicturedesk.blogspot.com/
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    www.rangefinderstore.com

  7. #27
    jd callow's Avatar
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    Sorry, I understand better what this thread is about.

    Well that sucks. Kodak needs to learn how to scale their local distribution to the demand. I had heard of the minimums and know that that kept many stores from carrying a wider variety.

    *

  8. #28
    braxus's Avatar
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    I'll comment on minimums. Our lab sells Kodak film and we use Kodak products. When I order rolls of Gold 100, I have to order a minimum 10 rolls. When I want to order some Portra films, I have to order a minimum of 20. Granted that is not a great amount if you factor in selling to different people, but our lab cannot get rid of 20 rolls of professional film like that. I would buy say 5 which means 15 have to be sold to other people. If I was trying to get a good selection of films, I could see this all adding up and ending up with a huge amount of film. Since some places go through a distributor, the minimum order may be even more then just 20 rolls.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Skeoch View Post
    I agree with Braxus. Thats what I found when I tried to deal with Kodak and sell sheet film. They're not interested in servicing small accounts and put you in touch with a middleman.
    Of course now the pricing becomes so high it's not worth having inventory.
    I've had much better luck selling Ilford products and Kentmere black and white papers.
    Personally I liked the Kodak films and chemicals but I've totally switched to Ilford. They just seem more committed somehow.

    Kodak put in place many years ago a higher yearly account minimum. I forget what it is but as a lab if you dont spend XXXXX grand a year then you can not buy direct. Again I dont know what the amount it but if you don't spend it then you have to pay the "small dealer" price which is basically so close to retail its a waste of time to stock the stuff. The employees used to get the small dealer price for film and I know it was pretty much the retail price at many stores.

  10. #30
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Dave Wooten;447633]

    scott.disabato@kodak.com


    Just a bump....I emailed Scott, he is the Marketing Manager, Professional Film Photographer Trade Relations for Eastman Kodak Company...He is a very positive voice for film and represented Kodak at the recent PMA show in Las Vegas. He is aware of APUG, hopefully he can be a voice and shed some light on pertinent questions.
    [FONT="Arial Black"][/FONT]

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