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  1. #21
    Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jovo View Post
    In a very recent 'call for entry's' for artists and photographers, 'traditional' photographs (i.e. gelatin silver) were categorized as 'alt process' work. I was utterly taken aback at first, and then comforted at that notion that here was our new domain....an alternatative, and well regarded approach to image making.

    Is it possible to be flexible in one's orthodoxy??
    I don't mind being considered "alternative".
    "Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop and look around once and a while, you might just miss it."
    Ferris Bueller

  2. #22
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    Ron, I hope you can understand that most of us will never have the understanding of these issues and perspective that you have. I'm grateful for all that you share and I'm sorry you feel it was a mistake to open this discussion.

    Do you think ther comes a point that Kodak would ever share certain patents that they no longer see a future in, with the public domain? Or is the mindset that they were expensive to generate and propriatary and staying in the vault?
    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In velit arcu, consequat at, interdum sit amet, consequat in, quam.

  3. #23
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstraw View Post
    Ron, I hope you can understand that most of us will never have the understanding of these issues and perspective that you have. I'm grateful for all that you share and I'm sorry you feel it was a mistake to open this discussion.

    Do you think ther comes a point that Kodak would ever share certain patents that they no longer see a future in, with the public domain? Or is the mindset that they were expensive to generate and propriatary and staying in the vault?
    The failing was mine in the choice of words and my clarity. Nothing more. I take the responsibility for that.

    As for Kodak giving things away, I doubt it in todays market.

    I could see Kodak and Fuji moving together. They already share a lot of technology. This benefits us all. But, Fuji has their problems as well.

    PE

  4. #24
    Alex Bishop-Thorpe's Avatar
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    I got a stack of old photography magazines last year, one of which was the product guide for 1979-1980. I looked up the section on film, expecting to find pages of dearly departed emulsions, as our choice dwindles from the good ol' days. In fact, it seems to me we have even more choice of film today...

    35mm emulsions:
    Agfa: 12 products
    Fuji: 4 products
    Kodak: 12 products
    Ilford: 3 products

    120 emulsions:
    Agfa: 9 products
    Fuji: no products? Apparently.
    Kodak: 8 products
    Ilford: 2 products

    Even with Agfa dearly departed, we've still got more choice than we did 20 years ago, when analogue unquestionably ruled the world. Even if there are a few ideas left "on the shelf". It was a bit odd for me to find at the time, so I thought I'd share.
    The Analogue Laboratory, or 'so you built a darkroom in an old factory in the industrial zone'.
    Blog thing!.

    Worry less. Photograph more.

  5. #25
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    A small list of unreleased products

    1. Direct reversal, 3 step "R" paper like Radiance.

    2. 3000 speed in-camera instant product. (blocked by Polaroid suit) This was close to release.

    3. Peel apart Polaroid like film. (blocked by Polaroid suit) This was close to release.

    4. High stability dyes (in early stages, a new chelating agent was needed) Dye stability surpassed anything seen in any product today except pigment type dyes. It may have surpassed them.

    5. Colorless prints that bloomed into full color under UV.

    6. 3D color prints. These were spectacular and needed no glasses to view. Kodak used a sample of this on the Annual report cover about 20 years ago.

    7. Instant color heat processed film (blocked by Polaroid suit and digital)

    8. Copper based photographic systems

    9. Polymeric gelatin and coupler substitutes (they take a LOT more work) Improves grain dramatically.

    10. An ISO 400 Kodachrome, finished in 1988 but rejected by customers during trade trial. Used T-Grains. (In trade trial in 1988)

    11. T-Grain Kodachrome in other speeds (ditto above).

    12. Two electron sensitization applied to B&W, which will take several years and millions to complete.

    13. ISO 25,000 speed direct positive thermal film.

    14. Pollution free film and paper process. (too expensive at the time)

    15. High activity organic fixing agents with low pollution.

    16. Mixed packet color with a single layer producing all colors of todays color papers. This had many problems yet to be solved, but was killed by slide coating and curtain coating. It would still be a big advance.


    I have alluded to these in a number of posts. Here are some of them all in one list.

    Enjoy. There are probably hundreds more that I could mention but won't, and hundreds more I don't know about.

    PE

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Kentmere products have a good presence in the US.

    They were also sold here under other than their brand name. Luminos comes to mind.

    PE
    Luminos used to be Kentmere's importer. I believe they were based in CA, USA and went belly-up around 2004 at which time they licensed the "Luminos" trademark to a German art paper company. My memory's sort of sketchy...

    They used to carry Luminos at my local CalumetPhoto. I never tried it in those days because it was obvious the inventory had been sitting for some time...

    I don't believe that Kentmere "offically" sold its papers under its own brand name until early 2005. They do have a USA web site.


    http://www.kentmereusa.com/kt_main.php?p=ak

    Apparently, they opened a new coating line in 2004 with the aim of achieving greater efficiency and superior operating economics.

    Nice to have that luxury in this day and age...I hope this is money well spent because I'm taking a liking to the VC FinePrint FB.

    Anyhow, it can be found at both Freestyle (also under the "Arista" label) and B&H Photo. So it may not be "The Best-Kept Secret in Black and White" any more...

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    12. Two electron sensitization applied to B&W, which will take several years and millions to complete.

    13. ISO 25,000 speed direct positive thermal film.
    PE
    Fascinating list, Ron.
    I'm thinking the two electron B&W would be the most likely to see production. That is a product I would be interested to use & I think would have commercial viability.

    The 25,000 ISO film is the one that has intrigued me since you first mentioned it a while back. I think you said it is also fine grain? I'm not sure what the narket for it would be, but that is a film I would love to play with.

  8. #28
    patrickjames's Avatar
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    Since Agfa's and Forte's departure Kentmere has become my product of choice (so far). I used to use the Luminos papers back in the mid/late 90's. They had that annual printmakers guild contest which supplied me each year with enough paper to make it to the next one. I guess it is no surprise that I have taken a liking to Kentmere products. They seem to have a really good momentum, but that is just my impression.

    I don't think we will see the end of kodak film products for a very long time. I do know a lot of professionals are sick of digital since it was supposed to make things easier, but in the end for some photographers it has made things more time consuming. Film is here to stay in one form or another for many years to come.


    Patrick

  9. #29
    Struan Gray's Avatar
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    16. Mixed packet color with a single layer producing all colors of todays color papers. This had many problems yet to be solved, but was killed by slide coating and curtain coating. It would still be a big advance.

    I have always been surprised (well, disappointed) that Kodak has not leveraged its experience in what everybody else these days calls nanotechnology. Perhaps those are the products that are going forward, and that is why we don't hear about them, but from my armchair viewpoint Kodak seem simply never to have realised that their skills in reliable bulk production of nanocrystals might be applicable elsewhere.

    No. 16 is an example. If that trick can be pulled off there are a wealth of possible applications in optoelectronics. But not - yet - on the huge scale and in the traditional imaging markets that Kodak seems to cling to like a comfort blanket.

    IBM has found ways to make money from its pure science research, even as its core business moved away from using that research in its own products. It would be good to see Kodak emulating that, both freeing up niche products from the dead hands of its accountants and putting fun new tools into the market.

  10. #30
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    4. High stability dyes (in early stages, a new chelating agent was needed) Dye stability surpassed anything seen in any product today except pigment type dyes. It may have surpassed them.

    PE,

    are you comparing to dye transfer dyes or silver dye-bleach dyes (if there should be any difference at all) or even to other dyes?

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