Kodak film quality considerations - LF and ULF included

[pauliej]

This sounds like a good subject for the tv show "How It's Made". I would love to see a whole half hour program devoted to film/paper making and coating, etc. processes. I just wish they didnt play that silly and very annoying (digital?) music in the background, as it is very distracting.

Thanks for all the very interesting information presented here.

Paul

[CBG]

In thirty plus years of work with Kodak film, processing (kodachrome) and materials, I've had exactly one single flaw in Kodak sourced items. A suface ding in a roll of Kodachrome processed long ago, I suspect during processing, since the aforementioned amazing QC would have caught the defect were it in the film originally.

Overall QC in the photo industry prior to digital is nothing short of amazing. (The numerous bugs in digital software are a glaring exception in QC. Even top end equipment like Sinar has issues.)

C

[dslater]

They use IR laser scanners. One bounces off the moving web and the other penetrates through the film. Both are used to pick up different classes of defect. This includes dust, dirt, hair, bugs and etc. Even though the air is filtered and everyone wears special suits, an occasional fleck of dust or a bug creeps in.

This method is NOT use for HIE and EIR film for obvious reasons and that extra method is what contributes to the high price of these products. And before you ask, no I am not prepared to discuss that method as I was never introduced to it.

PE

Do you know what they did before they had lasers?

Dan

[Photo Engineer]

Do you know what they did before they had lasers?

Dan

Infra red lights work just as well with ordinary films. They are less sharp, but do work just fine.

PE

[SchwinnParamount]

Michael;

... Those machines were in the basement of B9 which was just demolished.
...

PE

:o

I guess that's the end of speculation that Kodak will get back into the paper business. Seriously, I love Kodak products and always have. I still buy as much Kodak as I can because I trust their QC unlike that of J&C products (for example).

[Photo Engineer]

Actually, an EK lurker corrected me on this. It was B-36 which is still there AFAIK.

PE

[Tim Gray]

Come out and play, EK lurker. I'll send you postcards and other goodies.

While it doesn't changing anything to hear that the paper equip is still there, since it will never get fired up again, it is nice to know that it didn't get trashed (yet). One can always hope. I wish I was able to experience Kodak paper back in the heyday, but I just started traditional a year ago...

[papermaker]

For your information,

In 2006, I edited/authored a book (spiral bound booklet) titled History of the Paper Mills at Kodak Park which was intended as a memento for Kodak papermakers (the last papermachine was dismantled in 2005). I won't go into the details but that book led to lots of questions about the history of the fiber based B&W papers so I wrote a second book in 2007 titled A Guide to the Surface Characteristics, Kodak Fiber Based Black and White Papers. When doing research for the second book, I came across the APUG site. While I'm strictly a papermaker (retired), I was intrigued by some of the forums and have checked back a few times. That's how I came to this thread and thought there might be interest in the 2 books. One caution, however, the books are about manufacturing paper support and there is nothing about emulsions, emulsion coating, or photo products (subjects I don't know much about). Both books are available at no charge though I do ask that requestors cover the mailing costs. If you would like a copy or want more info you can contact me at KitFunderburk@gmail.com. I'd also be happy to try to answer questions here if that is appropriate for this forum.

Respectfully,
Kit Funderburk

[papermaker]

At least with Azo, Kodak made their own paper--and I think they made their own paper for all of their other papers. When Paula and I toured the plant, they started us at the beginning of the process--paper making in HUGE vats. We looked down on it from two stories up.

To clarify this point, Kodak did not make all of its own support paper. When Kodak started emulsion coating paper in 1880 the paper support was imported from several manufacturers in Europe. In 1900, Kodak started up a baryta coating operation but still imported raw base stock from Europe. The first paper machine was installed in Rochester in 1914 and then 5 more in 1918-19 (other machines were added in 1931, 1934, and 1962). The Rochester site (Kodak Park) supplied most of the support paper that was emulsion coated in the US but emulsion coating operations outside of the US received most of their support paper from European paper mills. When Kodak support manufacture for B&W products was shut down in 2000, the raw base and baryta coating were sourced from Europe until the end of the B&W business in 2005/2006. The last Kodak papermachine was shutdown in 2005 (followed by resin coating about a year later) and the support was then supplied from Europe. The actual supply chain around the world was rather complicated but the above is a general view of support manufacturing.

[Uncle Bill]

Considering how much film I have shot over the years I have yet to run into a dud roll of film and that is the usual suspects Fuji, Kodak, Ilford and Agfa (departed) and the Central Europeans: Efke, Foma and Forte (departed and missed for the low fi qualities).