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  1. #51
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    With the exception of the observations on cost, which don't need three different adjectives all meaning "expensive," that's a load of nonsense.

    Bleach is neutralized with baking soda (or the neutralizing powder that comes with the bleach) then safe to dump down the drain in consumer quantities. The developer and fixer are essentially black and white print developer and black and white fixer. Not every transparency needs masking. It IS expensive, but for many images it is quite easy and the results are wonderful. Did a fair amount of it in the old days, thinking about getting some now in spite of the price but not really decided on that. Here at least it's not hard to get, just expensive.

  2. #52
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    I remember doing some Ilfochrome (Cibachrome back then) printing and getting some great results! From memory, once the dev, bleach and fix were mixed together it was neutralised for disposal?

    I gave up when it became too pricey to continue, but still had them made via a dedicated Cibachrome lab for quite a few years after.

    Nothing beats their depth and lusciousness when printed correctly - I've seen some digital hi-gloss prints that many claim are just as good, but if you compare the two together - no contest. Ilfochrome wins, hands down.

  3. #53

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    We do have hazardous waste disposal places here...
    I know it won't be cost effective but I don't care...and as for moving on, I love playing around with old processes in all kinds of things.
    There's no need to use hand tools when we have power tools, make metal objects with a hammer and anvil when there are mass production ones around, shoot a longbow when we have compounds, cut wood with an axe and crosscut when we have chainsaws, listen to records when we have CDs, or use film when there is digital!
    I do all of these things because I like them not because I have to, and often just because I can....

  4. #54
    tomalophicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derwent View Post
    We do have hazardous waste disposal places here...
    I know it won't be cost effective but I don't care...and as for moving on, I love playing around with old processes in all kinds of things.
    There's no need to use hand tools when we have power tools, make metal objects with a hammer and anvil when there are mass production ones around, shoot a longbow when we have compounds, cut wood with an axe and crosscut when we have chainsaws, listen to records when we have CDs, or use film when there is digital!
    I do all of these things because I like them not because I have to, and often just because I can....
    Greetings from another longbow shooter. Are you on Ozbow?

  5. #55
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derwent View Post
    We do have hazardous waste disposal places here...
    I know it won't be cost effective but I don't care...and as for moving on, I love playing around with old processes in all kinds of things.
    There's no need to use hand tools when we have power tools, make metal objects with a hammer and anvil when there are mass production ones around, shoot a longbow when we have compounds, cut wood with an axe and crosscut when we have chainsaws, listen to records when we have CDs, or use film when there is digital!
    I do all of these things because I like them not because I have to, and often just because I can....
    A person after my own heart!

    I also shoot 4x5 even though medium format gives results that are fine enough for sizes I print - because I like it. I do darkroom work because I enjoy it. I'm a network engineer, I see computers all the time at work. The LAST thing I want is a hobby that has me "chimping" on a computer screen.

    It's true that many transparencies will need masking for optimum results, but many others won't. You can do a fair amount with normal dodging and burning (which of course work "backwards" from what you're used to in black and white, but work they do.)

  6. #56

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    As already mentioned, small batch Ciba just needs a little baking soda to neutralize. You need good
    venitlation. Most simple processing drums will do, unless you want to make really big prints. No need
    for software programs, monitor calibration, or a chiropractor to get your numb back and butt fixed
    after spending endless boring hours on the computer. Plus you can get something that looks like a
    real print instead of a fastfood restaurant placemat. I feel sorry for all those marsupials who haven't
    evolved past digital printing yet.

  7. #57
    tomalophicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    As already mentioned, small batch Ciba just needs a little baking soda to neutralize. You need good
    venitlation. Most simple processing drums will do, unless you want to make really big prints. No need
    for software programs, monitor calibration, or a chiropractor to get your numb back and butt fixed
    after spending endless boring hours on the computer. Plus you can get something that looks like a
    real print instead of a fastfood restaurant placemat. I feel sorry for all those marsupials who haven't
    evolved past digital printing yet.
    Hey, don't denigrate marsupials like that!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    As already mentioned, small batch Ciba just needs a little baking soda to neutralize. You need good
    venitlation. Most simple processing drums will do, unless you want to make really big prints. No need
    for software programs, monitor calibration, or a chiropractor to get your numb back and butt fixed
    after spending endless boring hours on the computer. Plus you can get something that looks like a
    real print instead of a fastfood restaurant placemat. I feel sorry for all those marsupials who haven't
    evolved past digital printing yet.

    "Just a little baking soda to neutralize..."!? My goodness, I'm sure a pro-lab involved in the grot of 'chroming would beg to differ!
    After Ilfochrome (somebody here on APUG remarked matter-of-factly, "it aint dead yet, just past its heyday..."), what will you be using?
    Machine-made Ilfochromes are no better than "fastfood restaurant placemats": compared with bespoke hand-made and masked prints, these are just bloody awful. I have never rejected a hand-made 'chrome, but have summarily shredded several machine prints. No masking or localisation is on a par with a pie with no sauce — unpallatable at the very least.

    If analogue photographers don't start transitioning and learning for the future, instead of airy-fairy put downs and me-too'ism of alternative processes, you will not have anything, even if you do still have film — and as an analoguel photographer I hope it stays is for a long time for its beauty and permanence, but I'm not wasting my time romancing the Emily Post.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  9. #59

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    I think I am on Ozbow somewhere...but haven't been there in ages!
    I've let my archery lapse for a while...been too busy playing with cameras!
    And unlike my target shooting I don't have to show up a minimum amount of times to keep
    My licence...

    I too use to work all day on a computer, and apart from a bit of Internet use I rarely turn it on now...
    I don't like scanning and I hate post processing so most of the scans I have done are sitting there as raw files cos I can't be bothered mucking with them....
    Drafting might have paid better than bus driving, but I sure don't miss those ten hour days in front of a computer...

    I will keep using analogue photography in as many forms as I can for as Lon as I can get the stuff to do so, hopefully until I'm dead or too old to hold a camera...
    Going back to basics can be fun and rediscovering old obsolete processes is fascinating...I really want to coat my own glass plates one day for instance, and back on archery I have been messing about with knapping which is how arrow heads and knives were made before metal...
    I love this stuff!
    I want to make an old English longbow out of Yew too...even though the composite ones I make are more efficient!
    I'm not a Luddite though, I'll be playing with carbon fibre soon just for fun!

  10. #60

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    Oh sorry, I mistakenly thought I was on APUG rather than the teenage gluesniffers computer game
    site. And printing Ciba is for adults. But way way back in my own high school chem class days it seemed that sulfuric acid (Ciba bleach) plus baking soda ends up with a little carbon dioxide in the air and a little of essentially nothing bad down the drain. At least, that's worked for the last few thousand of these prints I've peronally made. Commercial labs have a different set of problems with waste because of the sheer volume of acid storage. In other words, a replenishment processor that
    costs a few hundred thousand bucks and requires two hundred gallons of bleach in the tank works
    a little different than a simple ABS plastic drum that used a few ounces of solution. And sorry to
    offend some of your furry little pouched friends. We have opossums here too, and a cute one visits
    the cat food dish on my porch each nite.

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