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  1. #31
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    AGFA Grevert Film capabilities:

    The belgan plant only makes polyester base film as far as I know, the Leverkusen plant made acetate. I don't think that you can just switch the base without doing other changes to the film.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmacd123 View Post
    AGFA Grevert Film capabilities:

    The belgan plant only makes polyester base film as far as I know, the Leverkusen plant made acetate. I don't think that you can just switch the base without doing other changes to the film.
    The Gevaert plant in Belgium was making top quality film long, long before polyester was ever invented. Of course you have to make adjustments, but I have total confidence that if Gevaert saw a market, they could easily product film coated on acetate base.

  3. #33
    AgX
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    Primarily this would be a matter of subbing layer, which however could induce a chain of implications.

    But Agfa produced in the past Agfapan films as well on acetate as on polyester (the S-versions).

    Furthermore I don't get the point (I'm slow on the intake): why should a manufacturer coating on polyester switch back to acetate?

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    Primarily this would be a matter of subbing layer, which however could induce a chain of implications.

    But Agfa produced in the past Agfapan films as well on acetate as on polyester (the S-versions).

    Furthermore I don't get the point (I'm slow on the intake): why should a manufacturer coating on polyester switch back to acetate?
    I can think of no good reason.

  5. #35
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    You cannot make the different supports on the same equipment as they use different making procedures. Once made, the two film supports cannot be coated with emulsion on the same equipment. You need different subbing or electrostacic processes on each machine. The electrostatic device requires a complex light trap to prevent fogging the film as it produces heavy UV and the emulsion must be capable of taking to the support which is charged.

    With an electrostatic device, you also have to have a complex discharge machine to dissipate the charge so as to avoid static fog while coating at high speed.

    If the plant is built for both, then there is no problem, otherwise it takes $$$.

    This does not even account for the different grades of film such as 2mil, 5 mil and 7 mil. The machine must have variable tensioning for these.

    This is a very very simplified picture of the various problems. If the plant is built for them all, then there is no problem.

    PE

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    Agfa-Gevaert 2012 second quarter results
    ..Gross profit margin improvement despite the still negative raw material impact..
    ..the traditional film markets continues to normalize..
    http://agfa.com/co/global/en/interne...results_UK.jsp

  7. #37

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    Tri -Acetate base and polyester base both have advantages and disadvantages.

    The biggest drawback of polyester in a camera film ( and usually one of its advantages ) is its incredible strength, especially in motor driven cameras, in our humble opinion.

    Polyester builds charge quicker than tri-acetate.

    Polyester is relatively cheap compared to tri-acetate film base.

    As an FYI to PE

    We do coat on tri-acetate and on polyester base and on the same machine ( M14 Mobberley ). With film, paper as well as inkjet emulsions.

    As I am sure you are aware we have two completely different coating and preparations procedures for doing so.

    Polyester especially unsubbed is a super efficient light pipe.

    Polyester is superb if you need a thinner substrate ( surveillance / aeriel etc ).

    Polyester is very stable.

    Polyester is readily available, from a range of manufacturers.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  8. #38
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    Simon;

    Kodak coats both on the same machine. Same as Ilford! What I referred to was making the supports. They are made differently, as one is made from a melt and the other is made from a solution. There is the difference.

    Also, subbing methods differ substantially.

    Pe

  9. #39

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    PE

    Got you!......neither is a nice manufacturing process if I remember well?.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN tcehnology Limited

  10. #40
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    Simon, my main work in this area was with RC paper and there they use a melt as well. It is hot and messy and the machine must be kept hot and running or it clogs up. Same thing for film.

    And, the smell is not very nice either.

    So there is this huge machine that is hot and oozing resin all of the time in a slow stream. Then it revs up and begins making RC paper as paper streams through the middle of 2 webs of polymer. What a mess. And the solid waste is remelted and run through again after "chipping" to make small pieces.

    Yeah, a mess.

    PE

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