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  1. #31

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    The problem with accordion bottles is that they are made of polyethylene. This plastic is not impervious to oxygen which sort of defeats their purpose. They should not be used for developers.

    Their design makes them impossible to clean should something precipitate on the walls that is not soluble in water.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    My own empirical evidence shows, after about five years of using the same accordion bottles, that they work.

    What is it that makes people have bad things happen to them with the accordion bottles? I see absolutely no difference in the quality of my developers with accordion bottles compared to normal bottles.
    Thomas, I too wonder what reasonably scientific tests have been done which shows that accordion bottles do not work. It is said that the plastic of which they are made allows air to get in through the plastic. What is the evidence for this? Looking through old darkroom books they were mentioned as the "things to have" and clearly sold well for many years. You'd have thought that in a very short time, if they were defective, they'd not have sold. Even in pre-internet days when magazines like Amateur Photographer and camera clubs were the darkroom enthusiasts' only source of help you would have expected to see complaints but there doesn't seem to have been any

    Plastic "soda pop" type bottles are of course cheaper(no cost at all in fact) but can only be squeezed so far.

    When I first set up my darkroom, having bought a set of accordion bottles secondhand, I had never heard of forums such as APUG and did not have the benefit of their content. The accordion bottles looked to be a sensible buy and ignorance being bliss I filled them with stock solution developer and never noticed a problem.

    pentaxuser

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    Thomas, I too wonder what reasonably scientific tests have been done which shows that accordion bottles do not work. It is said that the plastic of which they are made allows air to get in through the plastic. What is the evidence for this? Looking through old darkroom books they were mentioned as the "things to have" and clearly sold well for many years. You'd have thought that in a very short time, if they were defective, they'd not have sold. Even in pre-internet days when magazines like Amateur Photographer and camera clubs were the darkroom enthusiasts' only source of help you would have expected to see complaints but there doesn't seem to have been any

    Plastic "soda pop" type bottles are of course cheaper(no cost at all in fact) but can only be squeezed so far.

    When I first set up my darkroom, having bought a set of accordion bottles secondhand, I had never heard of forums such as APUG and did not have the benefit of their content. The accordion bottles looked to be a sensible buy and ignorance being bliss I filled them with stock solution developer and never noticed a problem.

    pentaxuser
    In terms of effect we are talking semantics and you wont notice any difference between developer kept in an accordion bottle and any other. However, I would say in terms of Plastic "soda pop" type bottles are of course cheaper(no cost at all in fact) but can only be squeezed so far. When this is the case you just transfer to a smaller soda bottle (cheap as chips).

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  4. #34
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    Another alternative that I've had great luck with is recycled wine boxes. If you and your buddies drink boxed wine it doesn't take too long to get to where you have extras.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    The problem with accordion bottles is that they are made of polyethylene. This plastic is not impervious to oxygen which sort of defeats their purpose. They should not be used for developers.

    Their design makes them impossible to clean should something precipitate on the walls that is not soluble in water.
    So how come they work so well, all theory aside?
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  6. #36
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Another alternative that I've had great luck with is recycled wine boxes. If you and your buddies drink boxed wine it doesn't take too long to get to where you have extras.
    I've heard really good things about wine bladders. Friends of mine use them, and keep developers fresh for a very long time.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  7. #37
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    I haven't used them in years, but never had a problem as long as the bottle was dedicated to one chemical. The only time I ever had issues was when they were used for different chemicals. They're very difficult to clean. Residue gets caught in the accordion folds, and is almost impossible to clean thoroughly.
    Last year, I was given some accordion bottles. After trying to clean one (in extremely hot water), I hack-sawed it in half. There was all sorts of residue in the folds.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I've heard really good things about wine bladders. Friends of mine use them, and keep developers fresh for a very long time.
    Yep
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    So how come they work so well, all theory aside?
    Some years ago there was a long discussion on pure-silver about storing developers. Of the five most common materials used for bottles glass is the best followed by PET and PVC both rated as good and HDPE and LDPE were rated as poor. In my own experience HDPE and LDPE produced shorter life even with the air queezed out.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #40
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    For Accordion Bottle Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Some years ago there was a long discussion on pure-silver about storing developers. Of the five most common materials used for bottles glass is the best followed by PET and PVC both rated as good and HDPE and LDPE were rated as poor. In my own experience HDPE and LDPE produced shorter life even with the air queezed out.
    Interesting. I get 12 months out of my Xtol stock when stores in the accordion bottles I use, and six months out of LPD.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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