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  1. #21
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Bob:

    Do I assume correctly that your conversations with Phototherm didn't result in a workable solution?

    Matt

  2. #22
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    Michael

    I am talking about replacing the whole unit and just keeping the tanks and reels.
    I am looking to have the rotary base made by hopefully a geek/gearhead on APUG. In fact if one is built and has all local parts then I will order three more.
    Don't ask me why because it has a digital output application that is then in turn applied to a totally wet analogue process but I can't say because the analogue police will shut me down on this thread, so its a secret.

    Bob
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Slade View Post
    When you say 'base' for the ATL-3, are you talking about the lower tank holding area or are you talking about the stand with the chemical recovery tanks...or are you talking about something else?

  3. #23
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Matt
    they did and if this base idea cannot work then I will go to phototherm..
    The accessories that I have will push the cost of adapting the Sidekick to my needs is really $$$painful$$$

    After thinking about this for over a year and a half I have came to the conclusion that somewhere, somehow ,someone will stand up and say *** I can do it***
    my problem is that I am useless at mechanics , but a brilliant idea man and printer so I should just come up with ideas and print.

    Bob
    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    Bob:

    Do I assume correctly that your conversations with Phototherm didn't result in a workable solution?

    Matt

  4. #24
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    .....I have spent a lot of time with sink lines and to go back to calumet basket with nitrogean burst is not an option that I want to consider. I would like to solve my situation with the tanks and reels I have......

    ..........I have $$$$$ invested in reels and tanks not easily replaced .
    I really am looking for a base system that is programable that can accept my tanks, I have over 30 of these suckers in various sizes and they are IMO irreplacable and I curse Jobo, curse them I say........
    Bob;

    I know you have now. Many younger people have not. But, if Jobo has left the market and there is no replacement, we must cope. Of course, we also have to rely on color film being around in the first place.

    So, we do what we must to stay in business, right?

    If there is no replacement or substitute, then we must improvise something.

    Sorry I cannot help any further.

    PE

  5. #25

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    Bob,
    the only real difficulty in replacing the ATL series is the automation, which you have said you are happy to live without. Broken down into it's component parts a CPP (which is what any ATL without automation effectively is) consists of:
    1. a pump to circulate the water
    2. a heater coil and thermostat circuit to control the temperature.
    3. a motor to turn the drum with a speed control
    4. the gearing from the motor to the drum and the reversing control.
    5. the lift

    1. should be an off the shelf part
    2. should also be an off the shelf solution
    3. is allegedly a wiper motor from a BMW. The speed control should be dead simple since the only thing that matters is the output RPM of the motor. Simply calculate the RPM at each of the speeds and then all the replacement has to do is replicate the speeds, not replicate how Jobo does it.
    4. should be able to be reused
    5. should be able to be reused, or reengineered in metal for more strength.

    Broken down into those components you should be able to find a light engineering works that could replicate it relatively easily.

    Going further than that involves being able to deliver a precise amount of chemicals from the tanks to the drums so that you can use bulk chemicals rather than measuring them out for each run. There are various solutions to that, but it would be to simpler to avoid altogether and use the CPP/CPA style square bottles (Ilford bottles are the same size) and have enough of them that you can set up three or four runs in advance.

  6. #26
    L Gebhardt's Avatar
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    Probably cheaper to buy up all the CPP and CPA units you can find on ebay. I've got an old tired CPP for when my ATL finally dies. I should probably look for a second spare to stash in the garage. At least in the short term this would get you through your February job.

  7. #27
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    CPP-2's are still available new in Germany, Fotoimpex carries them (p. 71 of their online catalog, 1290 Euros without VAT, about $1935, the lift is an additional 179 Euros). Of course those run on single-phase 220-240V, but that is easily remedied with a transformer bought off the shelf for 100-200$ (Powerbright is one company, there are others, too). When I lived in the US full time I ran my old German CPP-2 (from 1991) off a transformer without problems, even with fully loaded expert drums. The difference in frequency, 50Hz vs. 60Hz, did not seem to have any influence.
    Of course shipping will be expensive, and one would need to figure that in.

  8. #28
    Trond's Avatar
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    Last year, when I was a little worried about the availability of spare parts for my ATL-1000, I wrote an e-mail to Jobo in Germany and asked them, and this is the answer I got:

    ---
    JOBO ATL1000 spare-parts are still available and machines can be repaired by our service.
    JOBO ATL-1500 and 4080 Colorprocessor CPP-2 are available ex stock.
    ---

    So they had spare parts, and the ATL-1500 and CPP-2 available in stock, in 2008. I suggest that anyone looking for spare parts, or a new machine, contact them directly.

    Trond

  9. #29

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    Bob,

    I want to mark this thread for future reference, but I also would suggest you contact a local university with an engineering program. I'd be willing to bet you can get a professor to turn a bunch of college students loose on your "challenge." It would be a wonderful exercise for the students, and you've got nothing to lose.

    Hell, if you were in the good ol' U S of A, you could probably get the government to fund a few $Billion of research on your "challenge."

    Good luck in your quest!
    John Bowen

  10. #30
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Acroel Trond
    thankyou for your posts.

    I am completely fed up with Jobo, I am so pissed off that they would abandon in NA their long time loyal customers.
    I do understand that today at least I can find parts, I can keep my machine alive for a very unseeable future. But my reality is that I have one technician who can fix my machines here in Canada, by the time he shows up, diagnosis the problem , then go I go to Volkswagan and get reamed up the a#### for a windshield wiper motar, then get the technician back replace the motar, get reamed up the a### by the technician, start the machine up and two runs later the machine stops working.. Then phone the technicinan , wait a week for him to show up , he diagnosis the problem as a memory pad chip, get reamed up the a&&&& again, phone Omega Sattar, find out the chip will cost $350 USdollars and by the way it will take 6 weeks to get from Europe..

    I have now run two runs of film, my Clients think I am a dork, and now I feel like a dork spending so much money trying to fix this f...888 machine.
    I have bought three additional machines on the market, and guess what, they all have f###***** stupid problems associated with them.
    This is no way to operate a business and I have to address these issues, I am commited to run film as long as Harmon produces and till the day my depends start filling up without my knowledge.. Hopefully my young staff members will get hooked on what we do and keep running film for another 50 years.

    Therefore I have decided to build four bases with all available parts local, simple design and force my technicians to manually fill and drain the tanks.
    For me this is the only solution, the thousands of dollars I have invested in reels and tanks should be good for another twenty years, I will only have to buy coupling cogs to attach the drum to the rollers and maybe that is not needed.

    I also have decided to buy the modified sidekick from phototherm for smaller film runs and C41 and E6 capabilities

    Paul Ewins diagnosis seems correct, except that I can survive with one shot manually filled and drained.
    So folks he mentioned light engineering works people.. Who typically would be light engineering works.

    and I do appreciate all the posts


    Quote Originally Posted by Trond View Post
    Last year, when I was a little worried about the availability of spare parts for my ATL-1000, I wrote an e-mail to Jobo in Germany and asked them, and this is the answer I got:

    ---
    JOBO ATL1000 spare-parts are still available and machines can be repaired by our service.
    JOBO ATL-1500 and 4080 Colorprocessor CPP-2 are available ex stock.
    ---

    So they had spare parts, and the ATL-1500 and CPP-2 available in stock, in 2008. I suggest that anyone looking for spare parts, or a new machine, contact them directly.

    Trond

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