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  1. #21
    kraker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    There'll still be Chinese made film around, which is my favourite b&w. (Shanghai, ERA)
    Surely you're not talking about movie film? If you are, please elaborate...

    shuttr.net
    -- A sinister little midget with a bucket and a mop / Where the blood goes down the drain --

  2. #22
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5791 View Post
    Err, it's a completely different emulsion to stills Plus-X. It's not even the same speed, and the MP version is a reversal.

    I do not agree that stills is dependant on MP. Ilford, Foma, Efke and arguably Fuji have stills film production that is completely independant of MP either because they dont make MP at all or because MP (in the case of fuji) is not as significant as it is for Kodak who are the market leader worldwide in MP. And Agfa discontinued MP film long and continued to produce plenty of stills film and paper for years.
    5231 is absolutely not an "entirely different" emulsion - and is a negative film.


    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril
    There'll still be Chinese made film around, which is my favourite b&w. (Shanghai, ERA) Perhaps Lucky might make their colour into 120, perhaps they might make colour positives again, who knows
    Do you realize what you're even saying? No, you don't want things to be reduced to cheap Chinese film.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  3. #23
    Metroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5791 View Post
    Err, it's a completely different emulsion to stills Plus-X. It's not even the same speed, and the MP version is a reversal.
    Just to be clear:

    Eastman Plus-X Negative Film 5231 in 35mm - asa 64 Tungsten, 80 Daylight
    Eastman Plus-X Negative Film 7231 in 16mm - asa 64 Tungsten, 80 Daylight
    Eastman Plus-X Reversal Film 7265 in 16mm - asa 80 Tungsten, 100 Daylight (Reversal) 20 Tungsten, 80 Daylight (negative)

    I shoot mainly Double-X (5222) in my stills camera (200-800 asa) and have used 5231 between 80-200. I managed to grab 5 x 400ft cans of Plus-X yesterday from my supplier at £40 a can (old stock). Safe in the freezer now.

    5231 has quite a history originally introduced in 1941 as Plus-X Cine Panchromatic Film, 5231. Double-X (5222) was introduced in 1959.

    The two films have remained comparitively unchanged since. There have been improvements throughout the long production run of these two emulsions. In the late 90's there was a change in the emulsion hardener. In the early 2000's both emulsions were re-engineered and production moved into a state-of-the-art coating facility at Kodak. This resulted in greater improvements in the film's overall uniformity and batch consistency.

    I love using it and it can be cheaper than buying the usual bulk 35mm film.

    FilmoTec GmbH produce ORWO - in Germany - an MP film in 100 iso for 16mm & 35mm and a 400 iso in 16mm & 35mm but I have no idea what it is like - yet!
    Last edited by Metroman; 04-08-2010 at 06:28 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Andy
    Per Mare, Per Terram
    Filmus Monochromus | Project Double-X | Daily Blog

  4. #24
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    I am also going to buy some Plus-X in still and probably super 8. I wish it was available in sheets!
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  5. #25
    Terrence Brennan's Avatar
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    Buy buy buy--bye-bye!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    So, BUY FILM, from RETAILERS...and shoot it...and buy chemicals...and paper....and, you get the picture. The fundamental problem here is quite simply that demand is low. I cannot see it going anywhere but further down big picture-wise, so it is up to we little guys to buy buy buy to fill the gap left by professionals who have abandoned film.
    Buy Kodak paper? Surely you jest!

    Seriously though, the relatively puny amount of of Kodak film and developer that consumers buy is simply going to hasten the inevitable.

    I switched to Ilford products several years ago, and purchase--almost exclusively--their film and paper. Bye-bye to Kodak products, because I can't count on those products to be there tomorrow.

    Ilford isn't trying to be everything to everybody, as Kodak is. And this is not a denunciation of Kodak, or to disparage their fine products; it is simply a hard evaluation of the facts, as I see them, concerning product supply from Kodak.

    Ilford has returned to their core business, namely B&W paper, film, chemicals and sundries, directly related to B&W photography, with a smattering of technical and scientific products. They ceased production of motion picture film, aerial film (did they ever even make aerial film?), as well as certain products manufactured by Kentmere, when they acquired Kentmere.

    For me, when I buy buy buy, it is Ilford products. Sorry, but for me, Kodak is a dead end street. Kindly don't bother giving me the "if-we-all-bought-Kodak-the-supply-would be-assured" baloney. The professional market, which was the lifeblood of Kodak, is gone, replaced by digital. Newspapers no longer buy mountains of Tri-X and 2475 Recording Film; catalogue houses no longer buy entire master rolls of Ektachrome for studio shoots. When aerial goes digital, when the motion picture industry converts to pure digital, when my dentist's office uses digital X-rays, that will probably be the end of silver halide products from Kodak.

    Perhaps some of their flagship products, like Tri-X, or some of their colour products will continue to be marketed. Who knows, they may even sub-contract the manufacturing to another company, depending on expected volumes, et cetera. PE, does that sound possible?

    One final note: like most people today, I rarely write paper cheques any more. Just about the only cheques we write are to our church, as presents to our grandkids, or odd purchases, such as when my wife pays for her Avon products. My bank manager told me that until relatively recently, all Canadian banks cleared their own cheques. Check volumes are now so low, that cheque clearing in Canada is done by a company, based in Montreal, which is co-owned by the seven largest Canadian banks. Does anybody think that world wide silver halide manufacturing might follow the same or a similar path?

  6. #26
    BetterSense's Avatar
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    Bye-bye to Kodak products, because I can't count on those products to be there tomorrow.
    Right, and you can count on Ilford's products to be there, for you, provided you don't need anything weird like, oh, color film.
    f/22 and be there.

  7. #27
    Terrence Brennan's Avatar
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    If you want to buy Kodak products, that is entirely your business, not mine. I said that I wasn't going to support them, and I was expressing a personal opinion and choice, based on the facts as I see them.

    If Kodak ceases production of colour film, it will be because the pro market has switched to digital capture, NOT because I buy HP5+ instead of Tri-X. What's killing the silver halide market isn't "art" shooters like me, but pros who have abandoned film for digital AND millions of amateur snapshooters who have done the same.

    Film is now a niche market, a "boutique" item, if you will. B&W products will continue to be made as long as there is a market for them, for me and other photographers like me, who prefer traditional methods and processes, over the current digital options. Ilford has staked their fortune on it, so they must think that there is some future in it, albeit a greatly reduced volume over what was traditionally "the only game in town."

    I have a project I started working on 13 years ago, which I have had to abandon, for lack of colour material resources. The only way for me to restart this project would be to "go digital," an impossibility given my financial situation. Personally, I am saddened every time I read of yet another product be discontinued, including colour materials.
    Last edited by Terrence Brennan; 04-08-2010 at 10:45 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #28
    clayne's Avatar
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    Re: even Movie film is not imune it seems..

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrence Brennan
    I have a project I started working on 13 years ago, which I have had to abandon, for lack of colour material resources. The only way for me to restart this project would be to "go digital," an impossibility given my financial situation. Personally, I am saddened every time I read of yet another product be discontinued, including colour materials.
    Color materials are easily available and priced affordably. Stop being so bull-headed about it. I personally don't care for the stand by and watch attitude.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  9. #29
    Terrence Brennan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    Color materials are easily available and priced affordably. Stop being so bull-headed about it. I personally don't care for the stand by and watch attitude.
    It requires Ektachrome film--still available--and Vericolor Internegative Film to make internegs. Exposure is increased when the interneg is made to increase the contrast and colour saturation. of the resulting negative.

    Internegatives made on regular camera stock will not give the same results as gen-u-wine Vericolor Internegative Film, which has been discontinued for some years now. My only option is to either shoot film and scan it or buy a digital camera. The end results will have to be ink jet prints.

    Nobody's being bull-headed about it; the necessary materials don't exist anymore. But I'm not complaining; the prints I have made from the internegs I made are still worth looking at.

    BTW, I made dye transfer prints many years ago. AFAIK, there are a few people still making them, but they have to manufacture their own materials. That's a bit beyond me; making my chemicals from scratch is more my speed.

  10. #30
    Rolleiflexible's Avatar
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    Why is this such a big deal here? How many
    motion pictures are shot in B+W these days?
    Get a grip.
    Sanders McNew
    My Flickr stream

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