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  1. #111
    lxdude's Avatar
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    ^^^I think they sell them to school districts.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #112
    fotch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    You cannot reuse or "rescue" outdated or surplus film or paper. It is essentially scrap. Look at it from the aspect of a butcher shop. What do they do with meats that have gone beyond the expiration date and are now bad?

    PE
    Don't the add dye and re-label the date "use by"?
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  3. #113
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotch View Post
    Don't the add dye and re-label the date "use by"?
    Add nitrates to the meat.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    Well, then, you're going to keel over in your chair when you read this!

    http://gizmodo.com/5614433/this-is-t...s-imax-3d-porn

    Yes, folks! It's a porno movie in 3-D! IMAX 3-D, no less!
    Bouncing boobs and male members, 20 feet tall and floating just inches in front of your face!

    It's a must see!



    If I'm not mistaken, IMAX 3D is a film process.
    You reminded me of a interview to a Director in TV, he is strabismic and the interviewed asked him about 3D, he said:
    "Oh, yes, I cannot see it. I remember my first 3D experience, it was on a playboy magazine. It advertised 3D content and included the glasses. My friend tried it first, he said it was awesome. Immediately I put the glasses and when I looked on the magazine, "oh, what a crap".
    But, it's quite interesting when I began experimentation with cinemascope. Other directors were baffled by this, but I have an advantage".

  5. #115
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    Add nitrates to the meat.
    Kodak used to use nitrate. It had some problems.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  6. #116
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Kodak used to use nitrate. It had some problems.
    What? Gave them migraine headaches?
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  7. #117
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    The last time Kodak saw a big down turn in a product range they just closed their production entirely. That was B&W papers.

    It's extremely difficult for a company the size of Kodak to downsize further, their corporate management still has illusions that the company is a major force, the only real asset is the name now not the products (apart from the film division which has it's niche market).

    No doubt someone knowledgeable will write factually about Kodak's decline in the next year or so, most people outside the US think that Fuji has had a better understanding of the market for many years.

    It's interesting looking back at Kodak & Fuji advertising from the mid 50's onwards. Fuji were selling state of the art 35mm cameras and Kodak unbelievably still selling Box Brownies and then Brownie 127's, Kodak Bantam Colorsnap's taking 828 film etc/

    Looking at pre WWII research Kodak were good when it came to films and especially colour, but their B&W developer research was a joke, it took them over 14 years to get from D76 to D23/D25, and then DK20 and later Microdol. It wasn't until the introduction of products like HC110 and later Xtol that Kodak actually took the lead in B&W developers

    In comparison in the late 20's early 30's smaller companies were making far larger advances with B&W developers, Edwal, Johnsons, Perutz, Tetenal, Ilford etc.

    Kodak & the Box Brownie was the 1890's-1900 equivalent of the VW Beetle, the peoples camera, but as people got more sophisticated Kodak still wanted to sell down market still with the box Brownie and by the 50's-60's first with 127 and later 126 which was 828 in a cartridge, then 110 and finally the disc camera. Both 110 and the disc camera based on selling less film at much the same price but with a far higher profit margins, however the image quality was poor usually due to camera shake as they were just too small & light.

    This shows a company through the 40's, 50's, 60's very lost with poor leadership, they make the worlds leading colour film, Kodachrome, and at the same time sell Box brownies, they were trying to be too many things to too many people. However they were enormously profitable selling film for other manufacturers cameras, and materials to process & print those films

    The roots of Kodak's current problems were sown many years ago.

    Ian

  8. #118
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Ian;

    Today, Kodak sells P&S single use cameras. All in all, the Box Brownies and Instamatics and other "small" cameras including the P&S cameras of today outsold and continue to outsell all others and continue to grow slightly in sales right now. Not much, but by a small margin. And, Fuji sells them as well today. They did not at first because Kodak had the patents on the best stamped plastic lenses. Bad decision? I think not!

    As for developers, D76 was the standby in the market for years. The attitude at EK was "why compete with yourself?", especially when Kodak had Versatol which you didn't mention and which was replaced by HC-110 finally when the time was right. Kodak had the best hardening fix on the market for years, and still sells it! And, formulas for all B&W chemistry that were under development when the B&W R&D was stopped would have surprised you.

    Kodak also had the Tri-Chem pack for home photographers, and the complete "How To" set of books in two sets and published over nearly 50 years. No other company can match that single contribution. My library contains both sets in many many hard cover volumes.

    At 20B USD / year income in the 80s, I would not say that they had poor leadership. Yes, quite a few bad decisions were made, but you don't make that kind of money by making a lot of bad decisions or doing bad R&D. If the films were not of the highest quality, Fuji would have taken over the total market. I guarantee it! And, talking to Fuji people, you hear their voice in this and it says that they are worried. Dr. Hirozo Ueda, VP and Director of Research at Fuji told me that he was probably getting an ulcer worrying about digital. He said that he felt ill every time he went by a Sony sign or a Toshiba sign!

    And, in the field of photography, many of the smaller companies were duplicating Kodak work, (eg. ID-11 vs D-76) or the color Tetenal kits with avoidance of Kodak and Fuji patents of course. Or, they waited until relevant patents expired. You seem to forget that many of these items came from Kodak first.

    Oh, and the year Kodak discontinued paper products, Ilford was faltering and Agfa failed. Bad management? IDK. I hate to cast a stone, but Ilford recovered wonderfully due to a great product line, and Kodak held its own in film due to the same reasons. So, if you cast any stones, it must be broadcast across the industry, not just Kodak management.

    I have spoken personally to VPs, Presidents and CEOs of 6 major photo companies, including Kodak. I would not say any of them was incompetent. They, just as their companies, were victims of circumstances surrounding digital and the WW economy.

    Your response was too shallow and too narrow to tell the full story. Sorry.

    PE

  9. #119
    eddym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    "His M-theory"?

    That has been the subject of many articles before Hawking and Ed Witten has been giving talks on 11 space for years. You don't read enough! PE
    I know... I used to keep up with this stuff, but then I got too involved in other things...
    Eddy McDonald
    www.fotoartes.com
    Eschew defenestration!

  10. #120
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    What? Gave them migraine headaches?
    The grain wasn't the problem. The tendency to combust though...
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.



 

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