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  1. #241
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ektagraphic View Post
    I don't remember it already being discussed in this thread but do you happen to know if there has also been a good decline in the demand for camera films lately?
    A good decline? Explain how a decline can be good first before I post.

    PE

  2. #242

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    I know I'm in a minority here, but I care more about the availability of E-6 than C-41. In your view, PE, does slide film benefit from the economies of scale offered by the cine business, or is it already pulling its own weight, as it were? (I assume it's making *some* money for Kodak and Fuji, because, you know, still available.)

    Would a real crash in the cine film market have serious fallout for slide films---because of chemical availability, or whatever---or is it really only an issue for the C-41?

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  3. #243
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    Simple organic chemistry is complex to most others. It is rather arcane in appearance and rather bizarre in practice. Add to that the methods of making a dispersion or making a coating.

    I had wished to post a series on System Engineering in B&W and Color, but there was so little interest, and it took so much time that I decided to quit. Why work on something that won't generate any interest until 2020? I won't be around to care.

    Look, you guys talk a lot but have little real interest or there would be more people willing and able to make hand coatings and some would be interested in system engineering. I can count on one hand, people REALLY interested in this. Most others vanish when the going gets tough. The proof of this is that out of the entire membership of APUG only about 5 people are actually making coatings on their own!

    When it takes me a week to come up with a long post on this, for just 5 people, is that worth it? It is easy to give glib answers, but hard to stick it out and finish a hard read of what is needed to make a film or paper.

    Sorry for the rant!

    I feel compelled to add that there are so many "experts" out there who know it all that this compounds my efforts and dilutes them by "proving" that I know what I am talking about. (sorry for the added rant)

    PE

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    I know I'm in a minority here, but I care more about the availability of E-6 than C-41. In your view, PE, does slide film benefit from the economies of scale offered by the cine business, or is it already pulling its own weight, as it were? (I assume it's making *some* money for Kodak and Fuji, because, you know, still available.)

    Would a real crash in the cine film market have serious fallout for slide films---because of chemical availability, or whatever---or is it really only an issue for the C-41?

    -NT
    Nathan;

    You are totally off the mark. Sorry.

    All non-cine films at Kodak are dependent on cine. So, a crash in the cine market will affect everything.

    There is a minimum coating "size" that applies to all films regardless of type. That is basically one master roll! If you fall below this in consumption, then the product is dying or dead! This is regardless of type.

    E6 products are lower at EK than C41 products in terms of consumption, but not in production. Two different aspects. Therefore EK is making enough of both product types to justify production of them, but E6 products are very low in that scale of things. Kodachrome fell off the bottom and now is "retired". So, as production falls, we approach that limit, whatever it may be. So far we are not there.

    Rejoice and use Kodak E6 films if you like them.

    PE

  5. #245
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    Ron,



    Don\'t count me out yet. I\'ve spent the last few years assembling a small lab to work in.



    So within a few more months there will be 6. (But right now I have to replace the blower motor on the air handler which just died this past Sunday. )



    MB
    Last edited by michaelbsc; 09-09-2010 at 09:59 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  6. #246
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    I just turned 20 today, and since I was about 17 or 18 I have been a film photographer and seriously interested in the quantum physics and organic chemistry (technical understanding is just as important as the creative concept of an image!). I have studied very old texts from my university for the past year or so regarding photographic theory, coating and making emulsion, emulsion types and processes, as well as many other parts of photographic chemistry and sensitometry. If hand coating anything is what it takes for me to be able to shoot and print, then I will gladly become the 6th or 7th member of that group of 5 or 6. I may be young, but this is my passion, and I wont let a paradigm shift decide what makes me happy.

  7. #247
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    Nikanon,

    Happy Birthday!

    Michael
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  8. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Nathan;

    You are totally off the mark. Sorry.
    Thanks for the clarification. It was an honest question---I didn't mean to sound like I presumed the answer was one way or another.

    E6 products are lower at EK than C41 products in terms of consumption, but not in production.
    I'm not sure I understand this part. There isn't a huge warehouse full of E-6 that's been produced but not consumed, is there? Or are the slide products done in a large run that then goes out to market in a slow trickle (and what happens in between runs---is the machinery idled, or is it partly the same machinery that does C-41)?

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  9. #249
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Look, you guys talk a lot but have little real interest or there would be more people willing and able to make hand coatings and some would be interested in system engineering. I can count on one hand, people REALLY interested in this. Most others vanish when the going gets tough. The proof of this is that out of the entire membership of APUG only about 5 people are actually making coatings on their own!

    When it takes me a week to come up with a long post on this, for just 5 people, is that worth it? It is easy to give glib answers, but hard to stick it out and finish a hard read of what is needed to make a film or paper.

    Sorry for the rant!
    Whilst I can understand your feelings on this the fact is that your posts on emulsion making are of great interest to those of us who probably will not do it themselves but also may inspire others to do something which they wouldn't have considered before.

    I'm no organic chemist (or any type of chemist) but I do have engineering and manufacturing skills and I know that if I needed to I could build small scale pieces of equipment such as an emulsion coating machine.

    Again, the likelyhood of me actually building something like this is fairly low but others in a similar position may actually get interested and do it.

    It may be that those of us with those skills but who are reluctant to actually take it a step further may only change our minds and do something when it is necessary to do it. Not the ideal situation but probably a reasonable assumption on reality.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  10. #250

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    I'd go along with Steve Smith ^^^ on this....I also get much pleasure and interest in reading many threads on APUG which are not directly relevant to my own photographic interests and activities, and may never be. Sometimes they do give me new ideas and schemes, but at the very worst it's more stimulating than watching TV or playing computer games!

    At the moment, I have no real plans (or time) for emulsion making, but will be buying PE's book...likewise I particularly enjoy reading about alternative processes,
    but no time or facilities to pursue these right now. Hopefully some day (when I retire from a very busy job?), I may be able to follow these up.



 

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