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  1. #261
    lxdude's Avatar
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    I find the discussion of emulsion making highly interesting. I never considered it something that anyone would be doing. I think it's cool that right nearby where I live there's a guy called wildbillbugman doing this interesting stuff. Even though I'm not into it at this time, who knows about the future. It's all part of the spectrum of interests represented here.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #262
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ektagraphic View Post
    I'm not trying to me a jerk PE, but Merrium Webster just told me that:

    Good- d (1) : of a noticeably large size or quantity : considerable

    That's where I was coming from.
    I was going to tease you about it but PE beat me to it.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  3. #263
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Well, for lab scale and for larger scale, you need a good method of coating that is inexpensive and reliable. Jim Browning's method is slow but reliable and usable. It is not inexpensive. It will make good film sheets up to 30x40 inches on film or paper. I have done it personally at Jim's under his tutelage.

    For lab scale and larger, you need a good method to make emulsions and to do that you need a good mixer (not a good stirrer - unless you are working at very small scale) and you need reliable temperature control from about 40 - 80 degrees C. In addition, you need a lab full of chemicals suited to your destination emulsion and you need a refrigerator to keep your emulsions cold. You need a good washing method for the emulsion, including noodle wash, ISO wash and UF wash. These are all in posts here with pictures.

    And, you need good support such as glass plates, subbed film, and a suitable paper. I have been using Strathmore papers, hot press at 100# or higher or baryta paper. The baryta is no longer available from the Formulary and IDK what the plans are for the future.

    That summarizes things for starters. All of these are described in long threads here on APUG.

    PE

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post

    If we collaborate, so that the ones who know the chemistry share that, then those of us who are good at implementation can work developing the work flow.

    I dare say that in time we could come up with a "cook-book" with scores of recipes that any determined hobbyist could replicate with effort. We would need both the ingredients and the methodology, plus explanations how to organize the kitchen.
    That is the mission statement of The Light Farm. We've been up and at it for two and a half years now. Here's some info on our contributors to date:

    http://thelightfarm.com/Map/Contribu...utorsPart1.htm.

    Jim Browning has a link to his own juicy-with-information website, and Kevin Klein and Mark Osterman (of George Eastman House) have their own sections for their recipes. Bill Winkler (aka 'wildbillbugman') has written the definitive article on glass cleaning. If TLF were a book, it would be hundreds of pages by now.

    The beauty of web publishing is that there is no limit to how many pages we can have, so if you make an emulsion, and would like to be part of a collaboration that is trying to 'rescue' handcrafted silver gelatin emulsions, I enthusiastically invite you to become a Light Farm contributor, either directly (I'll give you your own section!) or with a link to your own site.

    One last, very important note: Antique artisan emulsions can be exceedingly simple affairs requiring the bare minimum of equipment and only a few chemicals. Remember, the first emulsions were made before electricity and George Eastman started Kodak with dry plates he made in his mother's kitchen

    Cheers!

  5. #265
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    While my experience is mostly from manufacturing, much like Steve's comment earlier, I'm not the kind of guy who developed the process. I upscale and mechanize processes that research guys have developed. I do believe that I could build a working coating line if I won the lottery, but I don't know how to coat!

    If we collaborate, so that the ones who know the chemistry share that, then those of us who are good at implementation can work developing the work flow.
    That's exactly what is needed as one person will probably not have the knowledge to do all of it. I'm certain that I could build a web (roll to roll) emulsion coating machine although I certainly could not afford to do so.

    Whilst I also think I could probably get to the stage of making emulsion, I don't think I ever will. I probably don't have the patience for it.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  6. #266
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post

    For example, on a good week, cine products may run for a full day for several days, C41 takes up a day or two, and E6 products may run every other week. On that same scale, Kodachrome ran once a year! The difference is that the E6 product then sells to customers right away.
    Very interesting. I wouldn't have even thought that C-41 and E-6 would run this often but I guess there are quite a few people in the world.
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  7. #267
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Those are just my own guesstimates and not real figures! They are only to be used as very rough examples.

    PE

  8. #268
    CGW
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    Last edited by CGW; 09-13-2010 at 01:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #269
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Fewer trees.

    (end of English lesson!).



    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Look, you guys talk a lot but have little real interest or there would be more people willing and able to make hand coatings and some would be interested in system engineering. I can count on one hand, people REALLY interested in this. Most others vanish when the going gets tough. The proof of this is that out of the entire membership of APUG only about 5 people are actually making coatings on their own!
    My thoughts on this are, a revolution isn't created overnight! Give it time and it will grow. I've been into this darkroom stuff for about a year or so, and frankly I haven't built up enough experience/time/resources to start making emulsions. HOWEVER, it's all part of the master plan as I see it. Someday, when that's imperative, people will start doing it.

    Despite the simple enjoyment I get from learning all this stuff, in the back of my head is always the idea that someday film will be gone and I and whoever else is on board must be responsible for doing it ourselves. I think I'm not the only one.

    Rest assured, if your work isn't celebrated now, it will be in the future. Don't you know, NO ONE is appreciated during their life!

    Seriously, a quiet revolution is brewing... I'm only 25 and there are many others around my age that have the same maniacal attraction to analog photography. Give us that information and we've got at least another 50 years to put it to use.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe



 

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