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  1. #31
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    You guys can argue all you want. Actually, no one is wrong and no one is right either. The fact remains though that the movie studios are ordering a LOT less print film with the excuse of doing digital distribution of 3D films. Fad or not, it does decrease film production.

    So, my advice is this: Do not depend on the Cine industry to support analog. We must support analog. Go and buy and use film!

    PE

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusM3 View Post
    I can't stand 3D movies. Just gives me a massive headache and not worth it one bit for me.
    I can't even see the 3D, so the extra money isn't worth it at all.

  3. #33
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    You guys can argue all you want. Actually, no one is wrong and no one is right either. The fact remains though that the movie studios are ordering a LOT less print film with the excuse of doing digital distribution of 3D films. Fad or not, it does decrease film production.

    So, my advice is this: Do not depend on the Cine industry to support analog. We must support analog. Go and buy and use film!

    PE
    How much revenue did cine film sales generate for Kodak over the past five years? You're making a time series argument here with no data to indicate a trend. Care to quantify "a LOT?" Otherwise, your "argument" doesn't cut much ice.

  4. #34
    lns
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    How much revenue did cine film sales generate for Kodak over the past five years? You're making a time series argument here with no data to indicate a trend. Care to quantify "a LOT?" Otherwise, your "argument" doesn't cut much ice.
    For my part, I have no doubt as to the validity of this information, given his former employer. Nor do I wonder why he would be vague about the numbers, which perhaps weren't divulged and undoubtedly aren't for public consumption.

    -Laura

  5. #35
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    The majority of films you see I the theater originated on film. There's no good way to store video long term and it's got it's limitations in production. Amc will switch all it's projectors over. Read this:
    http://www.bigscreen.com/journal.php?id=1448
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    So, my advice is this: Do not depend on the Cine industry to support analog. We must support analog. Go and buy and use film!
    No argument there, certainly. From what you've said here and in the past, I get the impression that Kodak (and maybe Fuji) are in danger of getting into a situation where their economies of scale make it *more* difficult for them to do business successfully---they can make lots of film, but the facilities are so geared to high volume that they almost literally can't make small amounts. And it seems like that's the danger here---not that the demand will go to zero, but that it will go low enough that Kodak and/or Fuji can no longer service it profitably.

    Another question is whether, if Kodak or Fuji dropped out of C-41, someone else would step in at the smaller scale that the market could support. I guess Ilford prove that it's possible to make a go of it as a pure-film business with a high-quality product, but I don't have enough insight to say if their model generalises well to colour. (They used to have some colour films, didn't they?)

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  7. #37

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    (responding to me)

    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    The word missing in your take on "the industry" is "capture." Steve Jobs wants to stream everything into your house.If not him, then Google or some other gang of elf lords and their pals.Film still works for shooting a movie, which should be obvious if you've actually seen anything bound for a big screen shot recently. They use film. Lots of it. Is emulsion research dead for cine film? How much cine film did Kodak move last year? What do their financial statements tell us?
    You sound like you're disagreeing with me, but I can't tell why. This is basically what I said, isn't it? Movies are largely still shot on film, but distributed in digital; that reduces demand for film stock, though not to zero.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  8. #38
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    How much revenue did cine film sales generate for Kodak over the past five years? You're making a time series argument here with no data to indicate a trend. Care to quantify "a LOT?" Otherwise, your "argument" doesn't cut much ice.
    I cannot be held responsible for your missing my previous estimates taken from reputable publications, but Cine accounted for anywhere from 60% - 80% of Kodak's production. (Not my estimate but close... Read Bob Shanebrook's book instead!) Cine is basically outselling all other film production in the entire world! This is a fact. (maybe I should say "was outselling", IDK)

    Suffice it to say that the current figures are plummeting for both Kodak and Fuji! And this is in just the US market so far as 3D does not seem to be important WW yet.

    Many posts here suggest that Cine supports us analog photographers, and it has been true, but if what I was told is correct, then that must change. We must support analog ourselves.

    PE

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    How much revenue did cine film sales generate for Kodak over the past five years? You're making a time series argument here with no data to indicate a trend. Care to quantify "a LOT?" Otherwise, your "argument" doesn't cut much ice.
    Why should PE have to furnish all that to you? Cine film is very big at Kodak. That's a known here. How big? Look at the Kodak quarterly and yearly reports. Film has been supporting digital. That is, digital has shown losses and film has shown profit. At this time Kodak cannot survive without its film business. Digital can't even support its own R&D without film paying the bills. Cine film is the largest part of Kodak's production.
    Look at the reports and draw your own conclusions.

    And fergawd's sake, would it kill people to cut PE a little slack? He isn't just another lunk like the rest of us with little or no direct knowledge of the film business. I'm not saying never question something he says, but geez...
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #40
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    .
    I appreciated the novelty of Avatar 3D.
    But, I won't be falling for That Olde Trick anytime soon.
    Maybe when I have grandchildren, they might be entertained
    by such nonsense. It's childish gimmickery, being as prizes are
    no longer provided in cereal boxes as a motivational distraction.


    Ron
    .



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