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  1. #101
    michaelbsc's Avatar
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    How many stops is the straight line of Delta 400?
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  2. #102
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    How many stops is the straight line of Delta 400?
    It would be great if this spurred Ilford to start producing it in sheet film again....

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr5chrome View Post
    ..i've been saying for years that KODAK should sell off it's film division. It will save the films as they are known. It worked for the Ilford films. The big corporate machine no longer works for traditional imaging products and services.

    Isnt KODAK who just recently put out an article boasting an upswing in film use?
    Film use and sales are up this year, and not by a little. There's something wrong with this picture...

    dw
    dr5chrome,

    I'd like to see a source for that. Your statement might be true for pictorial films from smaller manufacturers. From Kodak's perspective, though, cinematic films sales are the largest portion of their overall film sales and they have been plunging for the last 9-12 months.

    We've got Kodak now selling under the Arista label and Ilford "off-branding" like crazy (Kentmere, the new Rollei films, etc.). In years past that wasn't a bad thing, because the retailer rather than the manufacturer bore the marketing costs (if any) but it now smacks fof overcapacity.

    However, if you have some data available to suggest that segments of the film market are recovering - I will gladly stand corrected. This would be greate news.
    Last edited by aldevo; 12-11-2010 at 11:42 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Digital Photography is just "why-tech" not "high tech"..

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    That comes true basically for all major manufacturers.
    They pushed on or least jumped on the digital car, the same time cutting off the markets for their expendables and are a now seeking for substitute profits, which partly are to come by pushing new machinery into the market within short periods. But changing a chemical industry into a machine making industry is not easy and sets their management in front of a dilemma.
    This is an excellent point!

    Around 1998 the largest digital camera sellers (by unit sales volume) were Agfa-Gevaert and Polaroid.

    Consumers did not easily trust the purchase of a $500 digital camera to a manufacturer of $4/roll film...especially as film (stupidly) was seen as the technology that is inferior and being replaced.

    Kodak really DID seem to believe that film would keep growing right along with digital until around 2002. See, for example, the joint venture they engaged in with Lucky Film. Sadly, that did not prove to be the case...
    Last edited by aldevo; 12-11-2010 at 11:48 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Digital Photography is just "why-tech" not "high tech"..

  5. #105
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    Kodak formed a joint venture with Lucky and built a plant in Brazil because they expected analog to grow in those areas of the world. However, the cost of digital dropped so rapidly that the Chinese and SA market went directly to digital.

    PE

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughowk View Post
    There were some interesting comments at TOP by Mike Johnston and others on the market re-alignment in film manufacturers: among the 4-5 companies currently in the market, there will most likely be one or more leaving the market. If true, who would you want to be the last standing - a Company that has made a public commitment to B&W film, or one who has made it known that they wish to leave the market? If the former, then why buy anything from the latter since even increased purchases of their product will not change their attitude towards film? I have enough T-Max 400 to last me for awhile, and I hope Adox delivers a great product with pan 400 so I can ignore the yellow box company. What a shame that the Company built by George Eastman has come to this. Oh well, time to move on.
    I will use whichever Kodak products appeal to me (for the simple reason that they do appeal to me) for however long as they are available and will move along if (or, as is likely) when they are unavailable.

    I already give some of my analog photo business to Ilford (I use some HP5+ and quite a lot of Ilford DD-X) and will give some to ADOX once Polywarmtone is produced again (in fact, I've pledged to buy 5 100 sheet 8x10 boxes on their website). And here again the reason is that these products appeal to me.

    No, giving your business to Kodak will not change the attitude of senior leadership towards film (which, by word, has been one of "we are a digital-focused company" rather than "we must stop producing film").

    But it does raise the possibility that their film business could be purchased by a group that wants to make a go of it. Kodak, after all, has found buyers for some of their traditional businesses.

    This, however, does not enter into my purchasing decisions. I buy Tri-X because I like Tri-X. And for no other reason.
    Digital Photography is just "why-tech" not "high tech"..

  7. #107

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    Alvedo,
    My point is not to suggest a boycott of Kodak products but rather to those who think buying Kodak film will encourage them to stay in film business, don't bother. They've already made up their minds. Kodak is like a schizophrenic Company split between film vs digital, and the digital side is mostly in control. Kodak engineers produced one of the best films out there, T-Max 400; but Kodak marketing and management could care less. It doesn't fit into their strategy. Even if they had 100% of market share, the market is too small for them.

    Given the validity of that analysis, what is a film user to do? About the last thing we would want to happen is for Kodak to be the last maker standing, for they would pull the plug in a heartbeat. What we should prefer is for those companies committed to film (Adox, Ilford, etc.) to be successful. I don't need cutting edge film products, just good films with consistent quality and readily available at reasonable price.

  8. #108
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    Doughawk;

    Kodak still makes T-max films, just not cut to 8x10. And you are right, the market for 8x10 is too small, especially when you cut the film and no one buys it and so it goes bad on the shelf. If the business is there, Kodak will supply it, but the business is in rapid decline for ULF film sizes.

    Why lose money?

    PE

  9. #109

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    Kodak Tmax 8x10, 400 and 100, discontinued

    Hello All: I just happened to be reading through this thread and found a mention of rare earth metals and their applications in film making.I remember an article in a Canadian Business Magazine which stated that a massive deposit of rare earth metals had been discovered in Northern Canada.Preliminary findings indicate that it eclipses China's reserves by at least 5 to 10 fold !!!!.

    Further testing of core samples verified this find.Since film isn't the only user of this material, the various mining and processing concerns are saying this discovery will pretty well eliminate China's stranglehold on these materials.

    On the downside, it will take at least 3 to 5 years to set up mining and processing facilities to handle this material and produce a commercially viable product.

    Just thought I'd bring this to every ones attention.

    Doug

  10. #110
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    Despite the fact that my financial support means nothing and will change nothing, I still use Kodak films simply because I think they are great. I'll use them until they are gone. Though I do not often favor T films over traditional films, when I do, I particularly like the T-Max line much better than the Delta line (the EI 3200 film excepted). I particularly like T-Max film in T-Max developer at 75F. They are not my "Number One" film company, but I do love their products, and I use them when I know they fit the bill for a particular shoot. I also use Fuji (mostly for color), Ilford, and sometimes Efke and Rollei. I used to shoot at least 100 - 150 rolls of 35mm HP5 a year, but I have switched to Arista Premium 400 because the quality for the price is too good to pass up. When that is gone, I will stockpile some, then go back to HP5 to support Ilford again. I also love TXP sheet film, and I am giving TX a spin in 120, since TXP is not gone.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)



 

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