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  1. #111
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughowk View Post
    My point is not to suggest a boycott of Kodak products but rather to those who think buying Kodak film will encourage them to stay in film business, don't bother. They've already made up their minds. Kodak is like a schizophrenic Company split between film vs digital, and the digital side is mostly in control. Kodak engineers produced one of the best films out there, T-Max 400; but Kodak marketing and management could care less. It doesn't fit into their strategy. Even if they had 100% of market share, the market is too small for them.

    Given the validity of that analysis, what is a film user to do? About the last thing we would want to happen is for Kodak to be the last maker standing, for they would pull the plug in a heartbeat. What we should prefer is for those companies committed to film (Adox, Ilford, etc.) to be successful. I don't need cutting edge film products, just good films with consistent quality and readily available at reasonable price.
    A devastatingly correct analysis.

    And of course no one expects Kodak to lose money. But the reality of Kodak's position in the black-and-white analog market these days is what it is, regardless of how or why they got there. They are winding down film production. Others currently are not, or are ramping it up.

    The days of measuring consumer film production in units of how many times the output could circle the globe are over. Companies who can only profitably produce in such mind-boggling volumes are not good bets to be those driving today's smaller pictorial analog markets.

    But companies whose minimum film orders might be only "25 packs of 8x10," or who can accomodate reliable yearly production runs of odd-sized sheet film as a good faith exercise in customer service, just may be perfectly positioned. The world does not begin and end with only Kodak.

    For the record, as a previous life-long Kodak customer I really do wish this reality was otherwise. But sadly, it is not. If I intend to continue practicing this avocation, I must recognize the progressive nature of this reality.

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 12-11-2010 at 07:35 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  2. #112
    MVNelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    It ain't signed into law yet buddy. The left wing loons and the rabid right are still gonna fight. To the detriment of the majority.
    very wise discernment, I totally agree .... as does the majority !
    Miles :
    cherish light

  3. #113
    AgX
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    Back to original topic:

    At Photokina 2 1/2 months ago the Kodak film stand for one half consisted of the Canham initiative.

    There and in talks with them released by Kodak on their website the impression was given that they would be the outlet for Kodak films in ULF sizes.

    Thus Kodak's decision to cancel TMax in 8x10 does not surprise me at all. What surprises me is the report here in this thread that the Canhams themselves would not offer it.

    I guess by now it is time for a statement by the Canhams on what they intent to offer in future.

  4. #114

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    I had assumed the Canham deal was that they would offer the product if ordered in sufficient quantities, assuming availability in sheet format from Kodak.

    Tom

  5. #115
    AgX
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    To my understanding the Canhams would order any size at Kodak assuming sufficient orders by customers.
    (The former would offer a proposal.)

    Kodak has no problems making those sizes, but selling them. So they skipped them from their general catalogue.

  6. #116
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    While we are not connected to 'all' the film sellers in the market place, we are with a few big ones. It was true that ALL photo sales were down in 2009 and 2010 - until AUG 2010 rolled around.

    Just our local pro shop here in Denver caught up all the 2010 losses in this last 1/4 and then went almost 40%+ over for the year. Film sales alone in 2010 have been up 45% in this one store. Given how bad the economy still is, this is stunning, they cant keep the film in stock. The sales have not been for digital items either as DPP is a 60% analog shop.

    Ill bet FREESTYLE would tell you the same story.

    Our business has a residual effect. We are still feeling the downturn and are down this year. I dont expect to see an upswing at our lab for another 2-3 months.

    As I said and as it has been stated. KODAK has already made up it's mind. The big company mind-set will no longer work in today's photo market. From the bad economy, LF shooters are still hurting. The film sales have not yet come fully back yet. KODAK is pulling the trigger on a film that will likely come back in 6mo.

    I have been in this business too long, not to see the trends and to make the right moves. We are not a 'normal lab'. It's expensive to keep our production going.

    Regardless of what is being said, TMAX100 sells. We use it to produce LVT. I know of dozens of other labs that use it in mass quantity. We have clients that use it.. this is just my example. ...sorry, i just don't believe there isn't enough sales for this film size, on the commercial side alone....

    Regardless of what KODAK may believe, the quality produced is the best. This discontinuation is in my opinion, the death-blow for KODAK.

    If it were up to me I would fire the top people. Even Wall Street says KODAK is one of the worst managed companies. Either KODAK sells their film division, giving it to someone who will be dedicated to film products, or KODAK should just close it all down right now! I know too many who rely on this one film, in all its sizes. As a lab, I cant set up a service, then turn around and tell clients, sorry I cant do it.

    We will have to move totally away from KODAK materials. We will have to live with the lesser quality for the sake of telling clients that the service will continue.
    If I cant count on a product being there, I cant be using it in our service.

    ..it's just dollars and cents and wasted time..

    dw

    Quote Originally Posted by aldevo View Post
    dr5chrome,

    I'd like to see a source for that. Your statement might be true for pictorial films from smaller manufacturers. From Kodak's perspective, though, cinematic films sales are the largest portion of their overall film sales and they have been plunging for the last 9-12 months.

    We've got Kodak now selling under the Arista label and Ilford "off-branding" like crazy (Kentmere, the new Rollei films, etc.). In years past that wasn't a bad thing, because the retailer rather than the manufacturer bore the marketing costs (if any) but it now smacks fof overcapacity.

    However, if you have some data available to suggest that segments of the film market are recovering - I will gladly stand corrected. This would be greate news.

  7. #117

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    Kodak's discontinuations seem to be on a "point of no return" basis, rather than being able to rapidly respond to market demands.

    Tom

  8. #118
    Rolleijoe's Avatar
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    I never cared for TMud....in the 20 or so years it's been available, the only thing that worked was version #2. And that only because it was closer to Tri-X.

    I switched to Rollei films earlier this year, and can see them providing everything I need (excluding Tri-X the wonderfilm). Their Ortho25 is spectacular, and while I tend to shoot mostly RolleiTLR,Hassy,MamiyaM645ProTTL, and occasionally 4x5 (bad back & arthritis the culprits there), I do believe the Rollei films are available up to 8x10 as well.

    So, Head over to Freestyle and check it out. The only thing Ilford makes I like are XP2 Super, and HP5+. Fuji discontinued their 1600 so that leaves a hole not filled yet either.
    If the lens doesn't read "ZEISS", then it just isn't.

  9. #119
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    But is it available in 8x10 sheets? If not, it just seems like shameless advertising, and not a helpful replacement.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

  10. #120
    Rolleijoe's Avatar
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    Go to Freestyle and see for yourself. All I said, was that TMud never worked for me, I still like Tri-X, but find the Rollei films the best since the days of APX.

    If you're that lazy you can't even look it up for yourself, hang on a second. I'll check for you.


    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/372810...ets?cat_id=404

    There ya go. 8x10 Rollei Ortho 25. Anything else you'd like me to do for you? Breathe, perhaps?
    Last edited by Rolleijoe; 12-13-2010 at 12:17 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    If the lens doesn't read "ZEISS", then it just isn't.



 

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