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  1. #81
    BetterSense's Avatar
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    As for that last thing standing question...I would say that Kodak will let Tri-X and Plus-X go before T-Max. It is their state of the art film, and I think that most film shooters prefer it to the traditional films, though I do not (in general). I'd also guess that 35mm would be the last remaining format, just due to its popularity.
    I would have also predicted that if Kodak was to trim their product line, that TMAX would be the last thing to go. It's their flagship film. And yet here they are discontinuing it in 8x10 and continuing TXP.
    f/22 and be there.

  2. #82

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    It is all a numbers game. Kodak has cut their production to only films that sell in enough qty to make business sense. These films are not gone only now on special order so the world is not ending today... when motion picture film ends, which is not happening anytime soon due to cost, then Kodak will end still film production as they run on the same line now which saves money and increases the survival time for still media.

    Cheers-
    Stephen

  3. #83
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpulley View Post
    Kodak didn't turn to digital out of necessity though, they helped invent it! Their hope was that a Kodak sensor would be in every camera in the world and that they'd make bucketloads of money over it. Kodak sensors are in some cameras but I wonder how much of a percentage? They guessed wrong, that selling a sensor instead of X rolls of film would generate more profit.

    That comes true basically for all major manufacturers.
    They pushed on or least jumped on the digital car, the same time cutting off the markets for their expendables and are a now seeking for substitute profits, which partly are to come by pushing new machinery into the market within short periods. But changing a chemical industry into a machine making industry is not easy and sets their management in front of a dilemma.

  4. #84
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADOX Fotoimpex View Post
    It is not a question of silver nitrate and goldchloride. Market prices of these metals go up due to reasons beyond the photographic industry (just as you indicated) and yes there will be a certain price effect no mater who is in the film business if they raise. But they have also fallen in the past 8 years. No one can predict the future.

    .....

    I donīt want to put this thought about raw materials and market decline completely off the table but I am pretty convinced that there will be ways to work it out. Technology advances and many materials can be made today at a fraction of the cost they were made 15-20 years ago. Especially in high grade chemistry, synthesis and around solvents.

    Letīs not worry to much.

    When Gevaert and Agfa merged they were, and remained, on equal terms concerning their shares in the new entity. However as shareholder themselves they were quite different, as Gevaert had much less capital than Bayer, who were the owner of Agfa back then.

    The silver crisis of 1979, which purely originated on the sole speculation of 2 (!) guys, was driving Gevaert via their silver bills to the verge of bankruptcy. So they had to try to leave the ship as shareholder. That was the end of Gevaert as photo-company as they left that field completely. Actually Agfa-Gevaert itself was very much at stake.


    So much about the influence of speculation on the photochemical industry.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    I'm glad they're keeping the Tri-X for now...
    Based on Kodak's recent behavior, I'm betting that there's a 320TXP 7-mil polyester base master roll stored in Rochester. As demand warrants, it's cut and finished. When that roll is used up (or spoils from age), there will be a Tri-X sheet film discontinuation too.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    ...I would have liked to have used the T-Max 100 in my 5x7. Oh well! Is Neopan made in 5x7 or 8x10?...
    I was just about to process and print some test 5x7 TMX recently purchased/exposed and then, if satisfied, fill my freezer with it. Even though there still seems to be a fair amount in the retail chain, I've decided not to rely on Kodak. Ilford and Adox deserve the support instead.

    Acros is available in 8x10 and half plate (not 5x7). Be sitting down when you check the prices in US dollars via Japan Exposures.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADOX Fotoimpex View Post
    ...Letīs not worry to much...
    That's my new approach. Looking forward to ADOX PAN 400 some time next year!

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Based on Kodak's recent behavior, I'm betting that there's a 320TXP 7-mil polyester base master roll stored in Rochester. As demand warrants, it's cut and finished. When that roll is used up (or spoils from age), there will be a Tri-X sheet film discontinuation too.
    Aren't all sheet film sizes cut from the same master roll? TMX, TMY, and TXP are all on the same 7mil ESTAR base. It sounds more like they don't want the trouble of distributing 8x10 film. The issue is that the packaged and expiry-dated 8x10 film sits on dealer shelves or in the warehouse and too much goes out of date before it gets sold.

    I think the solution is for Kodak to stop expiry dating its b&w sheet film. Kodak should produce master rolls for its 7 mil ESTAR base b&w films and sell cut stock until the master roll is finished. That would solve the problem of film going out of date and Kodak (or dealers) taking a loss. My experience tells me that b&w films last *well* beyond their expiry dates. I know this would be hard for Kodak's quality assurance people, but it makes more sense than their poor special order system.

    Ilford no longer dates it's photographic paper and I haven't heard any complaints on the forum. I'd be more than willing to deal with the tiny bit of extra base fog of older film (maybe!) as opposed to a special order system that drives availability down and prices up. Look at the Impossible Project--the quality of their product would never pass traditional Polaroid standards, yet there's an understanding among their consumers that it beats not having the film at all.

  7. #87
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    I wonder if all of this doom and gloom from Kodak will affect the prices of 8x10 cameras in the used market?

  8. #88
    AgX
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    Kodak is not the hub of the (LF) world.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADOX Fotoimpex View Post
    But if what you claim is true then less demand for silver (due to lower volumes being consumed in the photograhic industry) will result in lower silver nitrate prices.

    It is not a question of silver nitrate and goldchloride. Market prices of these metals go up due to reasons beyond the photographic industry (just as you indicated) and yes there will be a certain price effect no mater who is in the film business if they raise. But they have also fallen in the past 8 years. No one can predict the future.

    It is more a question of the long and complex synthesis of stabilizers and sensitizers for some very small scale products but even with our current level of production (which is very small compared to Kodakīs) we are way beyond the point of well diluting these costs in an economic way.
    Film base is also used for LCD screens and other media so thereīs no problem as well.
    The only problem at present is fibre base paper. Maybe some day someone apart form the paper industry has to start coating baryta on paper. But this has been done up to the 70ies by almost any photo factory and fibre paper is already neither used by Kodak nor by Fuji for over 5 years now.

    At present we buy all our raw materials independantly from Kodak and as far as I know our sources do not sell to Kodak or Fuji (which is not difficult to believe because Kodak and Fuji can make almost anything by themselves).

    I donīt want to put this thought about raw materials and market decline completely off the table but I am pretty convinced that there will be ways to work it out. Technology advances and many materials can be made today at a fraction of the cost they were made 15-20 years ago. Especially in high grade chemistry, synthesis and around solvents.

    Letīs not worry to much.

    Mirko
    Thanks for the interesting post Mirko. Many of us will be trying your new 8x10 film. Please let us know when the film is available for purchase.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADOX Fotoimpex View Post

    Letīs not worry to much.

    Mirko
    There are lots of reason why I use TMY. It is certainly my favorite film in any format in which it's made. However, I've made prints which were just as good as my ones from TMax on Efke,Foma,Tri-X and HP5+.

    Let's buy what's available and carry on.
    Jim



 

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