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  1. #21
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    The only thing I read in that link is some guy ("Anonymous") claiming something from an equally anonymous source.

    I do understand that given the times we live in this story doesn't seem implausible, but on the other hand, whatever has happened to APUG'ers critical attitude? Don't we want sources, real ones?

    Given that PE can only speculate on what the effects of the foreclosure willl be (if true at all), how can we assume that he knows more than what the link tells us.

    I believe nothing until Kodak or somebody else with some authority/proper source makes an announcement (yeah, like Kodak would proudly share the news).

  2. #22

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    I read an article, a few days back, that Ilford's sales were up 8% this year when compared to last.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...come-back.html

    I wonder if Kodak's film sales have also increased?

    Jim B.

  3. #23
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackinaw View Post
    I read an article, a few days back, that Ilford's sales were up 8% this year when compared to last.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...come-back.html

    I wonder if Kodak's film sales have also increased?

    Jim B.
    Up 8% from what???

  4. #24
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    Maybe I am a born optimist, but I don't see it as bad news.

    First of all, I'm sorry for those who are going to lose their job, unless Kodak finds a different collocation for them.

    What I see is that the fixed-cost structure is now out of size in respect to the output. If line occupation was on average less than 50% in both buildings, production can be moved all in one building without loss of products and with a reduction of costs. That might in turn make Kodak more competitive and film either cheaper or more profitable.

    So this could be good news: a reality check by Kodak, a downsizing of productive structure, a more efficient cost structure, profits from film.

    The big problem I see for the future is that this might be the last downsizing move available. If film sales decrease further, and if Kodak don't find the way to use "half" building, then the moment might come when their fixed-cost structure can no longer be supported by sales.

    If that moment ever comes, I suppose that for other film producers of this planet, especially small ones, a huge window of opportunity might open. Remember they presumably have a smaller fixed-cost structure (with the possible exception of Fujifilm) and maybe the death of Kodak will mean, if it ever happens one day, certainty of survival for the other players.

    Also, Kodak might sell "recipes" to Fuji and some products which don't have an equivalent in the Fuji offering might find a new life under a different brand.

    All in all, I am not so pessimistic, even though I'm aware the industry lives tough times. I wouldn't bet any money against the survival of film, at today prices, in 30 years.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  5. #25
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    Yeah, I see it as one step closer to sustainability for Kodak. It'd really suck if they stopped outright but I'd much rather they adjusted to the market like this, kept one machine running optimally or at least did a couple of batches per year and stayed with the game. Just think, they now have a very nice stash of spare parts sitting right next door that will mean it's pretty easy to keep their one machine going in the long term as long as it's well-maintained.

    And even if Kodak or Fuji quit, the other will take over and get a big increase in turnover for their film division. While I love me some Portra, Fuji makes excellent film too and conversely for the loss of Velvia. My only concern is that if Fuji or Kodak stop, we will have a practical-monopoly situation on colour film, which will be bad for pricing.

    I have little fear for Ilford (sales increasing!) or Efke though, so at least I will always be able to shoot B&W even though I would bitterly miss Acros and TMY2. Again, those small players would all benefit hugely from Kodak or Fuji leaving the film market. IMHO we will be able to buy film at retail for the term of my natural life (another 60 years probably), though probably not at today's prices even after inflation-adjustment.

  6. #26

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    Inoviscoat use their machine for other coating technologies besides film,this may be economically viable.

  7. #27
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    Kodak sales are down due to the motion picture film sales decrease that I posted earlier this year. This is the biggest item in the Kodak product line and even if B&W sales are up 8% or consumer color is up 8% (similar to the report by Ilford) that is a drop in the bucket compared to the 30% slide in MP products that might have taken place.

    As for KNOWING absolutely, well, I live in Rochester. Things do get around when many neighbors work (or worked) at Kodak. This event has been a rumor for months with expected layoffs, but the date was just finalized recently I guess. We will have facts to present to you in published literature as soon as it becomes available.

    As for giving or selling formulas to other companies, remember that film and paper formulas do not "travel" well between plants! I doubt if Fuji or Ilford could easily make any Kodak product without complete redesign.

    PE

  8. #28
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    I took a trip to Niagara Falls back in the 90s and just had to take a trip to Rochester to take a tour of Kodak and George Eastman House. I enjoyed them both and hate to hear of the troubles Kodak is having. I think film demand will settle out at some point and I hope the suppliers can adjust. With most consumers and professionals moving to digital I think the hobbist will be the ones still supporting film. I hope that it will settle at a level that will keep the film suppliers profitable.
    Marvin

  9. #29
    Marvin's Avatar
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    Another question for PE. Can either of these buldings be used for any type of film or do certain lines produce only one type of film.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandermarijn View Post
    Don't we want sources, real ones?
    Probably I can help:

    In January 2009 there was a visit of Journalists from the Democrat and Chronicle at Kodak Park in Rochester.
    Their report "Kodak clings to film" was published on 4. January.

    I quote: "Today, every roll of camera film comes out of Building 38 at Eastman Business Park."

    Building 38 is the other big film coating machine (the more modern one due to R. Shanebrook).

    So, most probably we as film photographers are not affected by closing of "14 Room".
    Relax, don't waste your time in another superfluous doom and gloom thread, go out shootig film and have fun .

    By the way, all other film manufacturers (except Agfa-Gevaert and Fuji) all have had only one coating machine for decades. And they are coating different products on their machine, not only films, but also RC and FB paper, inkjet and other products (e.g. look at the product portfolio of InovisCoat, they are running the former Agfa Leverkusen film coating machine).
    Interestingly now Agfa-Gevaert is running more coating machines than Kodak (last year there was an official announcement from them that tey are coating more than 1 million m² every day, lots of different film products including PCB films).

    Best regards,
    Henning
    Last edited by Henning Serger; 05-29-2011 at 11:41 AM. Click to view previous post history.

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