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  1. #41
    MaximusM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Totally agree. Kodak's withdrawl would mean game over. Unlike Ilford, these tiny companies lack the research and marketing chops to be effective players. The first and last time I used Chinese-made "Lucky" 120 b&w, it jammed in my Mamiya RB67 back and just concertina-ed up. A world without TMY-2? Half-baked, "walking dead" versions of Agfa APX just don't cut it. Be very careful what you wish for.
    I tend to agree here. It's all Kodak for me, followed by some Ilford and a splash of Acros (aside from my remaining old stock of APX,etc). For as much as things can be molded a bit playing with curves/developing, etc, there are no substitutes (and likely never will be) for Tri-X, TMY and Portra. I really hope this is simply a consolidation move for Kodak to improve efficiency and maybe some profitability. In the meantime, I'm just buying more. Yes, hoarding a bit but I do shoot quite a lot.

  2. #42
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    I've seen too many photos I like made on Foma and Efke to write them off. The big thing is QC, but that will probably improve.

    Even so with Ilford as well as the east European brands I could survive in B&W quite well without Kodak, though I'd miss Tri-X, TMY-2 and TMZ. I already miss Plus-X in 120 though I could get it on the 'bay if I really wanted it that badly. I just tend to stop using materials I can't get new any more. Color is the big thing with only Kodak and Fuji. I read someone on the LFPF saying that Kodak and Fuji were rumored (yes, thankfully just a rumor) to have agreed to make E6 materials only for a bit longer. I'd probably scream if E100G were to go away just as I've really come to like it so much, but if it does, it does. My main interest is in B&W now.

  3. #43

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    I think the negativity in this thread is residual though I do feel for those who have chosen all of their tools. After just touring Ilford in Manchester, TIP in Enschede, and soon others, I see what Kodak is doing - right sizing - perhaps a little late, and what Old Pol should have done, as expected and good signs.

    Lomographers use cameras to take pictures. They sure beat those who collect them, from the point of view of film manufacturers.

    Smaller film manufacturers are not all unsophisticated, and the quality can be very good. Some do have significant R&D. With improved sales, they could think about investing in upgrades. New markets to serve stimulate investment - not markets where users have already made their final choices. The research I've done (extensive, professional market research) shows that the "old" market has been eclipsed by a new and younger one, and that makes me optimistic.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Ken;

    Regarding your "signature line", what happened to all of the yolks. And, when Albumen printing went out of business, more to the point, what happened to all of the egg farmers?

    PE
    I hear they made a dandy killing on cheesecakes...

  5. #45
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Like you, I think a healthy attitude toward change is a good thing. For me, I don't mind that new players enter the market to serve a changing audience.

    What I don't like is using films where I run into technical problems. In money crunches I have tried Foma 100 and 400 films, for example, and run into quality issues that I have never seen with Kodak, Ilford, or Fuji films (or the old Agfa, for that matter). Holes in the emulsion, and weird anomalies that I couldn't explain. I don't wish to make these manufacturers feel bad about their product, but they do have quite a bit to go before they can crank out film with the same consistent quality that Kodak, Ilford, or Fuji can. They just aren't in the same league. Sorry.
    Their films can yield some really outstanding results; I don't ever wish to deny this. I know it, because I have seen it with my own eyes. Foma 100 in replenished Xtol has the tonal results I could live happily with for the rest of my life. But... inconsistent problems with the film keeps me from using it. I don't have time to go re-shoot scenes because there was a problem with the film.

    I think Kodak is trying to align their business with the times, downsizing in the most rational and beneficial way. I for one hope they stick around for a long time yet. The photography world would be a lot poorer if they suddenly disappeared.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCrowley View Post
    I think the negativity in this thread is residual though I do feel for those who have chosen all of their tools. After just touring Ilford in Manchester, TIP in Enschede, and soon others, I see what Kodak is doing - right sizing - perhaps a little late, and what Old Pol should have done, as expected and good signs.

    Lomographers use cameras to take pictures. They sure beat those who collect them, from the point of view of film manufacturers.

    Smaller film manufacturers are not all unsophisticated, and the quality can be very good. Some do have significant R&D. With improved sales, they could think about investing in upgrades. New markets to serve stimulate investment - not markets where users have already made their final choices. The research I've done (extensive, professional market research) shows that the "old" market has been eclipsed by a new and younger one, and that makes me optimistic.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  6. #46
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Some additional background...


    "At the turn of the 21st century, American shutterbugs were buying close to a billion rolls of film per year. This year, they might buy a mere 20 million..."

    [...]

    "But there's also a swelling band of new devotees who grew up in the digital age and may have gotten hooked from spending a magical hour in the darkroom during a high school or college class.

    "Others are simply drawn to its strengths over digital and are even venturing into retro-photo careers."

    [...]

    "Analysts foresee Kodak offloading its still-profitable film division sometime in the next half-dozen years as it battles to complete a long and painful digital transformation."


    How much longer can photographic film hold on?
    By BEN DOBBIN, Associated Press – Mon May 30, 3:11 pm ET

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 05-30-2011 at 09:38 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Additional info...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  7. #47
    brucemuir's Avatar
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    ^wth is a "retro photo career"

  8. #48

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    sad that more people are out of work in a bad economy ..
    but it this means that K is consolidating their resources,
    and pruning the tree i don't see this as a bad thing ( except for layoffs )
    but something that will help them stay alive for a little while longer ...
    im empty, good luck

  9. #49
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucemuir View Post
    ^wth is a "retro photo career"
    A fad? If it is, I hope it last a long time, aiding film sales.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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