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  1. #41
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    [...] Ilfochromes will start to fade in under an hour if you take them out into bright sun. We tested this on the roof at the museum exhibit preparation company at which I used to work.[...]

    That's a very interesting finding indeed.
    ChromaColour here in Adelaide, Australia that ceased trading last year, carried out a stability test exposing a variety of format Ilfochromes to intense light and only found evidence of derangement of dyes after 25 days continuous exposure, and such derangement was very small. They published this on their website, which along with their business, is no more. Involved long-term tests were also carried out at the request of clients for the long-term stability of Ilfochromes under spot illumination of various intensity; no fading was found over more than 30 years of continuous exposure in typical gallery illumination. I have viewed those prints myself dating back to the 1970s.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  2. #42
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    The "superior archival properties" that are often touted for type R prints are true, but they do not take into account the fact that they are still sensitive to UV light and to processing quality. Ilfochromes will start to fade in under an hour if you take them out into bright sun. We tested this on the roof at the museum exhibit preparation company at which I used to work.

    I would suspect a processing issue if some of your prints are faded and others are fine, yet they were stored identically.
    They were stored identically (in the same box in the same closet. )

    No big loss that some have faded. They're ok but none are masterpieces - they were made by a kid in high school fooling around with photography. No big surprise there might have been processing variations either - they were made by a kid in high school fooling around with photography and processing them in his basement with a tub of water for temperature control and solutions in empty (cleaned of course, I was a methodical and careful kid...) soda cans because they conveyed the temperature of the water bath well.

    It was a ton of fun, though. I had an English teacher who kept telling me they had a night class in photography I could take. I finally retorted, "Mrs XXXX, I could TEACH that class!" and then, in an ironic twist, wound up doing just that for one night. The guys who taught it were only doing black and white. They invited me to come in and show color printing. I asked for a slide to print, one of them gave me one of his, I took, it home, made some test strips and then exposed a sheet, loaded it in the drum, and took the drum back that night with my other gear and processed it for a demo.

    That same English teachers actually bought several prints from me. I think I charged $10 for an 8x10 which was a pretty good haul for me in 1980-81.

    I would shoot a LOT more chromes today if I could still get type R materials, or Ilfochrome for a reasonable price, say twice to three times the price of RA4 instead of more than six times the price of RA4 materials.

  3. #43

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    When I lived in Sweden I shot a lot of slide film as I didn't have access to a darkroom and this was the best way to see what I was shooting. However, I haven't shot a single roll of slide film since I started printing colour at home. I came close to trying Ilfochrome last year but the cost was huge and I don't really have enough masterpieces to warrant the expense. With RA4 I can print snap shots just out of curiosity and I'm only spending pennies. If I was scanning I'd probably go for slide film but I don't think I've even turned my scanner on this year.
    Steve.

  4. #44
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    That's a very interesting finding indeed.
    ChromaColour here in Adelaide, Australia that ceased trading last year, carried out a stability test exposing a variety of format Ilfochromes to intense light and only found evidence of derangement of dyes after 25 days continuous exposure, and such derangement was very small. They published this on their website, which along with their business, is no more. Involved long-term tests were also carried out at the request of clients for the long-term stability of Ilfochromes under spot illumination of various intensity; no fading was found over more than 30 years of continuous exposure in typical gallery illumination. I have viewed those prints myself dating back to the 1970s.
    Interesting, perhaps. But very true. It happened right in front of me. The reds lose their brilliance quite quickly. The printer, who taught Richard C. Miller Cibachrome after he could no longer do carbro printing, made a point of showing me so I would learn the importance of keeping artwork out of the sun even for brief periods. Based on what I saw, I would say that the lab in Australia must not have used very intense light sources in their tests. The L.A. sun caused a change in under an hour.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    The L.A. sun caused a change in under an hour.
    Are you sure it wasn't the smog?
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    It is incredibly frustrating to me that they can hold on to three Velvias, yet axe the two most useful and beautiful transparency films they have IMO. The lack of demand for T64 and Astia, yet the existence of a market for three varieties of Velvia, says a lot to me about the current stylistic trends in photography. It's too bad, as my work on film is not generally in line with those trends.
    I'm right with you on that. I'm so tired of over-amped color. I looked at the Galen Rowell retrospective book that came out a few years back, and it was easy to tell, even on the printed page, which were Kodachrome and which were Velvia. The intense, artificial color of Velvia overwhelmed subtle variations discernible with Kodachrome. A pink cloud was just pink, no delicate shadings which make it interesting.
    Velvia's purty an' all, but to me it quickly gets tiresome. I do use it under strongly overcast conditions, where I think it does well. Why is it color photography is expected to have these gaudy colors, but representational paintings are not? I'll tell ya what, I wouldn't want to put a large landscape photograph full of overblown colors on my wall.

    Interesting to me is how popular the desaturated look is these days. Now if we could just establish a 'realistic' midpoint...
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  7. #47

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    Interesting :

    I have been party to all kind of fading tests etc for ILFOCHROMES since 1987 when I joined ILFORD:

    ILFOCHROME because of its unique construction, process and use of permanent azo dye's is deemed the most stable of all colour photographic processes EVER, this is a fact. I have never seen a visible shift in an hour on any correctly exposed and processed ILFOCHROME print EVER. As an FYI we had them on our roof as well...

    All images fade...including ILFOCHROME and those exposed to high levels of UV fade fastest. ILFOCHROME had a huge advantage in that the different coloured dye's faded at a much closer rate to each other than other colour print processes, hence even if it had faded it was not as obvious as where typically on other colour products different dye's faded at different and in some cases accelerated rates.

    ILFOCHROME in many ways was a challenging product, especially contrast wise, and cost wise but a correctly printed ILFOCHROME was, and still is, a joy to behold and I am fortuanate to have many, indeed my kids pictures have all been printed on ILFOCHROME and MONOCHROME as I want them to last well over a century and these are the only two photo processes that can be guaranteed.

    I do not, and would not doubt, you saw fading 'in an hour' but can only presume something was very wrong with the stock that was used or the process that produced it. To be fair to RA4 products I have never seen them fade in an hour either, they too can to be very, very good.

    I have seen inkjet products fade in 'hours' especially in the early years of dye based inks.

    The ultimate accolade for ILFOCHROME is that it is still called 'CIBACHROME' by many, and that within the fine art community and the buyers of those 'colour' images ILFOCHROME is the print out product of choice as it remains the most stable media bar none.

    Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

  8. #48
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    ^^ Most educational. My understanding is that Ilfochrome prints, conservation-framed, would last 400-600 years. No, I wouldn't expect to be around to prove it, but hey, no harm in leaving a lasting image...

    Simon, do you have knowledge of Chromacolour/Adelaide/South Australia's testing processes and the superb print quality they consistently achieved? They were also quite bitter about irregular quality of the raw materials. The company's demise was a terrible loss to us in Australia.

    RA4 prints are OK too. They were much easier to print from contrasty Velvia stock than e.g. Ilfochromes, but I was smitten by the Ilford product. But having said that, as you observe, Ilfochromes have no match. I've recently seen some ultra large format Epson K3 Ultrachrome prints-on-canvas and am not convinced either by archival stability claims or the astronomical prices being asked for the finished works (around $14,000). With the poor availability of Ilfochrome now we are actually being pushed into alternative processes. I say, Ilford, bring your prices down, and promote the product more widely as the standard by which (electronic) printing should be judged.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  9. #49
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    It is incredibly frustrating to me that they can hold on to three Velvias, yet axe the two most useful and beautiful transparency films they have IMO. The lack of demand for T64 and Astia, yet the existence of a market for three varieties of Velvia, says a lot to me about the current stylistic trends in photography. It's too bad, as my work on film is not generally in line with those trends.
    Yes my thoughts exactly. I can imagine the only reason they hold onto Velvia 100f is because it's "f" and that is their "must have" part of their product line matching the rest of the marketed names, while Velvia 50 and 100 are there from sales/usage.

    Sigh if only I had a good income atm.. I really want to get as much Astia as possible.

  10. #50
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    I say, Ilford, bring your prices down, and promote the product more widely as the standard by which (electronic) printing should be judged.
    That of course is the OTHER Ilford--not Simon's current gig.

    And what is it with those guys- do they not want to sell product? I mean, I know the Swiss are reserved and all, but that's ridiculous!
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

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