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  1. #101
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Halifax View Post
    What I hear is a number of people are not like-minded but close minded because they want a sanctuary closed to certain types of film users who are not orthodox enough to own a darkroom.
    Not true, I use labs. I'd love to see more people use them too.

    The reality is though that each lab I use has a personality. Like photography in general it's not the equipment that matters most it's the way it's used.

    I simply don't care how a lab gets the work done, it is completely irrelevant to me because the only thing that matters is that the prints/scans are right. If they can do that they can use a $99 scanner they just picked up at Office Depot for all I care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Halifax View Post
    All that is really needed from my perspective is a separate sub-forum to discuss the entirety of lab services for analog photography.
    Umm, just FYI, there's already a group/sub-forum for that here at APUG. http://www.apug.org/forums/groups/hy...oto-group.html
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #102

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    henry

    it seems what you want is a forum where you can discuss skanning techniques, as well as the quality of photography
    that is produced by a variety of labs. you want user-opinions, not PR from the lab itself.

    why don't you set up your own "group" where people can discuss their experiences with whatever lab they use. the group can discuss whatever you want ... chemistry, mini lab machines, how duggal printed your 35mm fuji color
    on a shagg rug or the local grocery store turned your kodachrome's image into cake frosting ...

    i don't think that apug is going to change its mission statement anytime soon.
    the genie never really was in the bottle ...

  3. #103
    zsas's Avatar
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    The Terms of Service for being a member here are quite clear to me:

    "-Questions regarding digital techniques or digital techniques connected with traditional processes should be posted at hybridphoto.com (or the many other digital oriented sites)."

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Halifax View Post
    Technically auto exposure and autofocus are digital,
    They are electronic and predate digital photography, having been introduced for film (analogue) cameras. It became convenient to use IC chips to accomplish it, but not all IC chips are digital and digital is not a requirement.

    "The first camera to feature automatic windows exposure was the selenium light meter-equipped, fully automatic Super Kodak Six-20 of 1938"

    Leica patented an AutoFocus system in 1960.

  5. #105

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    Horrors! People sell scanners on APUG!

  6. #106
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    ^They do, although in the correct place
    "[Classifieds] Misc. -Anything Goes
    Post items for sale that are not necessarily related to traditional photography."

    Everything has a place here in accordance with the rules set forth in the terms of service

    OP was given leeway to generally discuss the services of labs, not sure why the rules need a change here? But if so, Sean should be contacted or a thread in the Soapbox opened

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    The Terms of Service for being a member here are quite clear to me:

    "-Questions regarding digital techniques or digital techniques connected with traditional processes should be posted at hybridphoto.com (or the many other digital oriented sites)."
    So lab queries at APUG is restricted to those labs subscribing to the identical creed as APUG.

    It is unclear for many labs if their procedures are analog pure or polluted by digital processes, but that's not the question here. The question is how good are their services. Unfortunately for those who want an unsullied analog sanctuary this requires some discussion of scanning. A moderator even called scanning integral.

    This thread went sideways when a non-moderator saw the word scan in the title and hushed comment under threat of a thread shutdown. This does a disservice to anyone looking for lab advice which is hypocritical considering one of the most prominent advertisers on APUG has the words scan and digital in bold letters. Are they trying to get APUG subscriber biz, do you think?

    The advertiser doesn't get into the debate about analog purity, they just want us to keep using film or they go under. Sadly, some analog purists don't factor in the needs of those who do not do the darkroom thing. Instead of being like-minded they get angry and would rather see all lab discussions shut down rather than encourage the use of film by any means.

  8. #108

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    I just wish APUG was essentially FPUG - Film Photography Users Group. If you use film and encourage the use of it, it's good. People WILL be encouraged to pick up an enlarger and try their hand at printing. People WILL be encouraged to try large format. People WILL be encouraged to try alt processes. So on and so forth.

    I'm not particularly interested on how one sets up their ink jet to make prints from files. There are plenty of sites for that kind of thing. I agree with that. As there are sites on how to use your digital camera, etc. APUG could say those bits are off limits. Or not. I don't really care - I don't have to go to those subforums any more than I have to go to the Lighting forum. As I've said before, there really aren't that many sites which have up to date and knowledgeable discussions on film scanning and color correction. People keep saying there are, but where are they? I've learned more about that from cinematography sites than anywhere else.

    The way I look at it is without film, most of us are dead in the water. It's the only thing that is really keeping the whole analogue side of things going. There aren't many new film cameras or enlargers being made still. Silver halide paper is surely connected to the film market. And the film market is hurting right now, in a bad way (Kodak and Fuji - hopefully Ilford is doing better). Anything we can do to encourage film usage is good in my mind. Having young people picking up film is good. I don't want to be an ageist, but if the only people shooting film and discussing film are 40+ and are using film because thats what they started out with, well that's not good for the long run. We need new blood. We need to convince people to put down their iPhones and shoot the real thing. And from my observations, those people DO NOT LIKE APUG, because of the militant stance against scanning and related discussions. Like I said, I know multiple young people who shoot only film now, some picking up 4x5, some getting enlargers, and they don't come to this site because they don't like it. They say things like, "APUG is stupid. How do they post pictures online if they are so against scanning." Etc.

    Most new people using film for the first time buy some film, shoot some pictures, and drop it off at CVS or Walmart for developing. They like the old camera. They like the way the pictures look but eventually they get sick of the crappy scans and scratches from CVS. They want to try out B&W. So they buy some equipment to do it at home. They realize they need a scanner to deal with the B&W film and to get away from CVS. They do some research online and buy an Epson Vxxx. They get frustrated with the color they are getting out of the scanner. They talk online with others and muddle their way through it. They see an enlarger on Craigslist and decide to have a go with wet printing. Up until that last step, not ONE of those things is encouraged actively by APUG. And that's dumb in my mind. Why would someone who did the first many steps of that process in another community come to APUG for the last one, when the other communities nurtured them all along the way?

  9. #109
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Halifax View Post
    What I hear is a number of people are not like-minded but close minded because they want a sanctuary closed to certain types of film users who are not orthodox enough to own a darkroom.

    All that is really needed from my perspective is a separate sub-forum to discuss the entirety of lab services for analog photography.
    Another way of looking at it is people who wish to go down a digital route after shooting the originals on film want to have changes to the site to suit them.

    No-one going down a scanning route is being shut out on APUG, people will discuss analog labs who can print your films, however you really need to ask the labs themselves about their digital output, that is a variable that they can choose, so even two labs using the same scanning equipment can differ in their quality in that respect.

    Having worked selling equipment to labs I've visited quite a number, what's often fogotten is that high end pro labs often use the same equipment as a high street store, all that differs is quality control & attention to detail. As scans take time they normally scan to suit the print size, highest quality scans tie up theit scanner for much longer.

    APUG is about sharing the analog aspects of photography pure & simple. It's not about discussion of Digital techniques.

    Ian

  10. #110
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Gray View Post
    I just wish APUG was essentially FPUG - Film Photography Users Group. If you use film and encourage the use of it, it's good. People WILL be encouraged to pick up an enlarger and try their hand at printing. People WILL be encouraged to try large format. People WILL be encouraged to try alt processes. So on and so forth.
    APUG incorporates all uses of film, most of us have no interested in discouraging film use even when the images are then scanned.

    However not everyone starts with film, some make wet plates, hand coated dry plates other paper negatives, but they are all analog mediums.

    Ian



 

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