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  1. #111
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Gray View Post
    I just wish APUG was essentially FPUG - Film Photography Users Group.
    And if it were where would I learn about paper photography, and wet plate, and bed sheet cyanotype photography, and enlarging, and contact printing, and...
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    APUG incorporates all uses of film, most of us have no interested in discouraging film use even when the images are then scanned.

    However not everyone starts with film, some make wet plates, hand coated dry plates other paper negatives, but they are all analog mediums.
    Sorry, I should have said origination in analog mediums. I'm surprise you guys are fixating on that part of my statement. And 'not discouraging' is not the same as 'encouraging'.

    But seriously, do you guys really think any one goes from a DSLR to wet plates without using film first? I think all these techniques are wonderful and should be discussed here. If you take all of photography, and remove digital camera capture and printing from a computer, you have a nice little community that is seriously under represented on the web and could use an influx of new people.

    New people want to be part of it. And pretty much every person I know on the internet who is under 35, started on digital and is now shooting film, is not on APUG. If I were on the APUG board or whatever it is called, that would concern me.

    I'm done, which I'm sure many will be happy about. I've made my arguments. I think APUG is shooting itself in the foot if it doesn't encourage new members to try out film and traditional techniques.

  3. #113
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Another way of looking at it is people who wish to go down a digital route after shooting the originals on film want to have changes to the site to suit them.

    No-one going down a scanning route is being shut out on APUG, people will discuss analog labs who can print your films, however you really need to ask the labs themselves about their digital output, that is a variable that they can choose, so even two labs using the same scanning equipment can differ in their quality in that respect.

    APUG is about sharing the analog aspects of photography pure & simple. It's not about discussion of Digital techniques.

    Ian
    I think it naive to say it is pure and simple. By your own definition use of a non-pure lab is a violation of the APUG ethos and cannot be a question here. This excludes most lab talk which comes across as exclusionary hypocrisy because prominent banner ads here advertise to APUGians their scan and digital services.

    You can advertise on APUG but God forbid a discussion of those services taint the analog purity. We want your biz from APUG but don't you dare talk about it on APUG.

  4. #114
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    I'm not going to go over all the old arguments, but as a poster who has asked exactly the same question as the one that originated this thread - recommendations for labs producing good scans - I *am* going to stick my 2p in. The advance of digital photography has not just been about creating an image, it has also been about shareability. In these internet days we expect to be able to share our images with our friends and family and, dare I say, our internet forums and galleries.

    I shoot 90% film these days. When I meet people they invariably ask why, and when I point out that a) it is fun, b) quality cameras are now cheap) film isn't very expensive to buy & process d) overall I spend far less on photography gear than a d****l user (or I would if I didn't have 14+ and counting cameras )

    The real surprise to many people when I start talking to them is however the realisation that they can shoot film *and* get a CD of digital images they can share with their friends. Most youngsters have never even thought about this (and quite a few oldsters too) - why should they. If you have never used film, why would you ever investigate what you could do with it? But, this is what will potentially keep film selling - the ability to fit film into the same lifestyle of sharing images. In this context, knowing where labs are that produce good value for money scans is invaluable. My experience is that quality/cost varies considerably.

    IMHO this *should* be part of APUG. It doesn't detract from any sub-forum about the different analogue processes, but nobody, but nobody, is going to leap straight in to film and start making wet plates. The process is incremental; some people may stop at a simple shoot and then lab process, others may go on to develop more involved skills.

    The total irony of all this is that having come back to film, but only using and promoting scan services, I now have an opportunity to build a darkroom, and have acquired some equipment which in due course I will start trying to use, for the *first time ever* at the age of 52. Up to now I have *never* developed my own film, and have shot 1000s of images.

    I can totally understand why a newcomer to film might be put off by APUG, and IMHO we should tolerate a cut-off division between pure analogue and digital a little further over, in the hope/expectation that we can help people develop (joke!) into more serious analogue photographers given time.

    As for DPUG, its just a backwater. Why anyone with a predominant interest in film would ever go there regularly is beyond me; the action is definitely here, and I enjoy reading about processes I don't understand in the knowledge that perhaps one day I will have a go at new things.

  5. #115
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    I think it is great that there are people who like APUG so much that they want to expand it to cover more subjects than it was set up to cover.

    It would however be fundamentally different if general scanning topics became part of the site's "mandate".

    Not because they would "pollute" the site, but because they would tend to "dilute" it instead.

    IMHO APUG has been successful to date because of its narrow focus. I could be wrong, but I think that the decision to keep that focus narrow was a business decision made by Sean that has been supported by many members over many years. It is certainly the case that this discussion has been repeated dozens, if not hundreds of times since I joined.

    I do think that the focus could be maintained while the interests of those who want to discuss scanning are better served if there was better integration between APUG and DPUG or other sites.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  6. #116

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    please post whatever information you have about whatever labs you use in this thread

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/...-services.html

    you can mention their services, if you liked what they did, or didn't ...

  7. #117

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    Another vote for North Coast Photo Services. I have been using them for a year or two and have been very pleased. I shoot B&W, color neg, slides, almost all 120. I used to use A&I in Hollywood (excellent work), but they were hard to get to, on the expensive side and not particularly user friendly. NCPS has been very reliable and their mid priced scans have been entirely adequate for the personal and moderate commercial work I do. I am very happy with their custom enlargements, and as I don't know or have photoshop (and my darkroom reconstruction is still in the planning stages) they have done a great job for me retouching portraits at very reasonable cost.

  8. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Umm, just FYI, there's already a group/sub-forum for that here at APUG. http://www.apug.org/forums/groups/hy...oto-group.html
    Wow, Mark. Good catch.

    It appears that 90% of the complaints in this thread are already addressed.

    So what's wrong with moving the discussion there?

  9. #119
    CGW
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    The vast majority of active APUG members are darkroom users, a smaller number shoot film then just scan, and a smaller number use a hybrid film/dital neg/alt process.

    Show me the numbers. None of your statements, or anyone else's here on this, are ever quantified. Just soothing generalizations--that's all I'm hearing.

    Vast? Smaller? C'mon.

  10. #120

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    Another lab for those looking for one check BWC in Dallas,TX. They were recommended to me by a professional commercial photographer whose work is excellent. I have only used them for developing transparency film and found them to be reliable and of high quality. They are a full service lab and may offer what some of you are seeking.

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/



 

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