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  1. #121
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    Wow, Mark. Good catch.

    It appears that 90% of the complaints in this thread are already addressed.

    So what's wrong with moving the discussion there?
    I'm not against lab recommendations here in public, I'm just not in favor of discussing scanning here.

    The difference is that it's simply not public in the sense that only group members would see it. Those of us who don't care wouldn't see it.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #122
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    Wow, Mark. Good catch.

    It appears that 90% of the complaints in this thread are already addressed.

    So what's wrong with moving the discussion there?
    This is contradicted by this:

    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    The Terms of Service for being a member here are quite clear to me:

    "-Questions regarding digital techniques or digital techniques connected with traditional processes should be posted at hybridphoto.com (or the many other digital oriented sites)."
    Lab processes are not so readily apparent to the neat confines corresponding to the latter.

    But this thread belongs not in "Darkroom" and not really in the hybrid section which assumes self-scanning and not the much broader discussion and interest in lab services.

    Obviously a fair # of subscribers are following this discussion judging by how many are jumping in. These questions and advice need a proper home and DPUG is not the answer given the contradictions noted above and the obvious interest here. A sub-forum on APUG for labs, with no barrier to discussion of their scanning services, would be ideal. Further sub-division based on region and mail-order may also be appropriate. You cannot get more analog than the post office.

  3. #123
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    What's interesting is just how few have chipped in to support more digital discussion.

    There's already places to discus the scanning scenario in the Group section, use it if yopu want it.

    Now think from a differnt point of view, back in 2004 I was saying the same as you, Henry, Aristophanes, Tim etc, and getting grief, I've never had a problem with Analog/Digital personally I've used both since digital became affordable and more importantly practical. The problem here on APUG is the constant anti film and darkroom attacks from digital users. That spills across to discussion about scanning, and then digital output. It's a fine line.

    Ian

  4. #124
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    What's interesting is just how few have chipped in to support more digital discussion.

    There's already places to discus the scanning scenario in the Group section, use it if yopu want it.

    Now think from a differnt point of view, back in 2004 I was saying the same as you, Henry, Aristophanes, Tim etc, and getting grief, I've never had a problem with Analog/Digital personally I've used both since digital became affordable and more importantly practical. The problem here on APUG is the constant anti film and darkroom attacks from digital users. That spills across to discussion about scanning, and then digital output. It's a fine line.

    Ian
    The problem here on APUG is the constant anti film and darkroom attacks from digital users.

    What? Please show me evidence of this digital goon squad's activities on APUG. Sorry but you lost me with this one, Ian.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    What's interesting is just how few have chipped in to support more digital discussion.

    There's already places to discus the scanning scenario in the Group section, use it if yopu want it.

    The problem here on APUG is the constant anti film and darkroom attacks from digital users. That spills across to discussion about scanning, and then digital output. It's a fine line.
    I'm back. To address your three points.

    First, look at the title of the thread. I bet a lot of people who may or may not have had something to add about the 'focus of APUG' didn't realize that a big discussion about that topic was occurring in this thread.

    Second, I never knew about the group that you mentioned. When I found out about it the other day, I asked to join. I still haven't been approved. So maybe it's not as good of an outlet as people are making it out to be. It certainly isn't very active.

    Third, it might be a fine line, but it's still a line. If the mods have to enforce a 'no scanning discussions' rule, they could just as easily enforce a 'no darkroom attacks' rule or a 'no inkjet printing' rule or a 'no monitor calibration rule' or any number of other rules that you wish to set up. I really haven't seen a lot of anti-darkroom comments here on APUG. Clearly if you are making them here, you are trolling and should get the boot.

    I have seen plenty of snobbery towards digital though, with comments like "I don't look at photos in the gallery if they aren't scanned from prints. They are unfinished." It's part of the reason why I essentially share no work with the APUG community other than the postcard exchange. I really can't be bothered with that kind of crap.

    I just want to remind everyone for the hundredth time that I see this rigidity as hurting APUG and hurting traditional methods in general. Not because I think reading 100 'Which scanner to buy?' threads is fun. You all seem to believe that scanner discussions is the crack in the dam that will unleash full digi-hell upon APUG. I'm viewing it as a concession to get new users to the site and interested in traditional methods, as well as a spring board to talk about some interesting topics related to film technology.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    I'm not against lab recommendations here in public, I'm just not in favor of discussing scanning here.

    The difference is that it's simply not public in the sense that only group members would see it. Those of us who don't care wouldn't see it.
    Please don't think I was contradicting you. My thoughts are exactly along the same lines. What good is film if you can't get it processed?

  7. #127
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Gray View Post
    I'm back. To address your three points.

    First, look at the title of the thread. I bet a lot of people who may or may not have had something to add about the 'focus of APUG' didn't realize that a big discussion about that topic was occurring in this thread.

    Second, I never knew about the group that you mentioned. When I found out about it the other day, I asked to join. I still haven't been approved. So maybe it's not as good of an outlet as people are making it out to be. It certainly isn't very active.

    Third, it might be a fine line, but it's still a line. If the mods have to enforce a 'no scanning discussions' rule, they could just as easily enforce a 'no darkroom attacks' rule or a 'no inkjet printing' rule or a 'no monitor calibration rule' or any number of other rules that you wish to set up. I really haven't seen a lot of anti-darkroom comments here on APUG. Clearly if you are making them here, you are trolling and should get the boot.

    I have seen plenty of snobbery towards digital though, with comments like "I don't look at photos in the gallery if they aren't scanned from prints. They are unfinished." It's part of the reason why I essentially share no work with the APUG community other than the postcard exchange. I really can't be bothered with that kind of crap.

    I just want to remind everyone for the hundredth time that I see this rigidity as hurting APUG and hurting traditional methods in general. Not because I think reading 100 'Which scanner to buy?' threads is fun. You all seem to believe that scanner discussions is the crack in the dam that will unleash full digi-hell upon APUG. I'm viewing it as a concession to get new users to the site and interested in traditional methods, as well as a spring board to talk about some interesting topics related to film technology.
    Amen. The "Flat Earth Society" vibe is really unfortunate.

  8. #128
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post

    The problem here on APUG is the constant anti film and darkroom attacks from digital users. That spills across to discussion about scanning, and then digital output. It's a fine line.

    Ian
    The problem in this thread was quite the opposite. A non-Moderator jumped in and started a hush on scan talk related to lab services and hinting at a Moderator thread shutdown, using the word pollution to describe the scan talk.

    This come across as being anti-lab, and then a Mod came in said that lab scan talk would be tolerated.

    Hardly embracing of the labs that still probably do far more analog work than all the darkroom hobby guys put together, and hardly a welcome mat to APUG advertisers. Support for film falls far short of unequivocal here despite severe industry distress. Some people are so busy protecting their turf and feel emasculated by digital they cannot see the big picture. Film needs labs and labs scan. Discuss. Get over it.

  9. #129
    zsas's Avatar
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    I believe those who wish to discuss have been given latitude to discuss 1) hybrid group, 2) soap box, 3) the new thread discussing labs, 4) discussions about scanning in the context of posting to Apug has been permitted. How is the community of Apug hardly embracing labs? I believe the 4 above are much more liberal interpretions of the Terms of Service.

    If someone warns a new user that scan talk is generally frowned upon that is being generous because the terms of service made it quite clear. I believe the OP is getting what he wanted in this thread, but this thread blossomed into a discussion about the community as a whole and what the A in Apug means or in some folks opinion should mean. Start a new thread or contact Sean?!

  10. #130
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    I believe those who wish to discuss have been given latitude to discuss 1) hybrid group, 2) soap box, 3) the new thread discussing labs, 4) discussions about scanning in the context of posting to Apug has been permitted. How is the community of Apug hardly embracing labs? I believe the 4 above are much more liberal interpretions of the Terms of Service.

    If someone warns a new user that scan talk is generally frowned upon that is being generous because the terms of service made it quite clear. I believe the OP is getting what he wanted in this thread, but this thread blossomed into a discussion about the community as a whole and what the A in Apug means or in some folks opinion should mean. Start a new thread or contact Sean?!
    Good chance he's already following this or should be. Don't think these issues can be fluffed off again.



 

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