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  1. #131
    Sean's Avatar
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    It is simple really. There isn't a single thing I could do to please everyone when it comes to this issue. I could add some digital and there would be fallout, I could continue to adhere to the charter and there will be some fallout. I had a lot of concern over this in the past, sleepless nights trying to figure out how to please all parties involved in this debate and keep APUG to my vision, and it almost drove me mad. I made the decision years ago to adhere to APUG maintaining a narrow focused scope and drawing a specific line (see the charter on the home page). This did wonders for me and our moderator team as the 'gray area' evaporated so did a great deal of our stress in managing this busy forum. Having such a well defined direction was a good thing for the day to day running of APUG. These issues still pop up from time to time and we have to come in and essentially post the same statements. The narrow scope of APUG is praised by some and loathed by some, but at the end of the day there are 100,000's of places to discuss all things D, but not so with Traditional. Therefore, I feel it makes more sense to cater to that one little oasis which remains. Why deny such an entity the right to adhere to it's chosen path? Will this "kill" or "harm" traditional photography? I know we continue to register 20-30 new people a day which says to me we are doing something right. Our stats are always strong for such a niche site. We give traditional companies/mom & pop shops extremely cheap advertising here, many I do not even charge for ads because they are struggling in the current economy. We seem to be one of the few photo forums where members have direct lines of communication to traditional manufacturers. APUG is what it is and can't be all things to all people, nor can we be some kind of supreme savior to traditional photography, that is too much to pin on any single organization. Those who continue to wrestle with the scope of this site, might ultimately find this is not the venue for them. I know we might lose some members because of that or disappoint some people, it's nothing new when it comes to running such a venue. Taking it even further, if a mass exodus occurred over our scope, it might prove the venue itself is not viable but that has yet to be indicated in the slightest.

  2. #132
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Thank you, Sean...

    "like" button
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  3. #133
    Klainmeister's Avatar
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    Thank you Sean, I really appreciate your input both in this thread as well as the countless hours you've spent devoted to the medium.
    K.S. Klain

  4. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    The problem in this thread was quite the opposite. A non-Moderator jumped in and started a hush on scan talk related to lab services and hinting at a Moderator thread shutdown, using the word pollution to describe the scan talk.

    This come across as being anti-lab, and then a Mod came in said that lab scan talk would be tolerated.

    Hardly embracing of the labs that still probably do far more analog work than all the darkroom hobby guys put together, and hardly a welcome mat to APUG advertisers. Support for film falls far short of unequivocal here despite severe industry distress. Some people are so busy protecting their turf and feel emasculated by digital they cannot see the big picture. Film needs labs and labs scan. Discuss. Get over it.
    i am the "non moderator" you keep referring to ..

    did you even read what i said ?
    i find it remarkable that someone who has been here for a few months
    has any idea of any of the history of this website ( unless you have been lurking for 8 or 9 years ) ..
    if you read what i said ...
    i said the scope of apug is narrow ( the owner just chimed in and said the same thing )

    i hinted of a thread shutdown ??
    i said you were polluting the thread with your gripes about how
    apug wasn't custom tailored to your needs and suggested
    that if you have troubles with the way the site is run contact the people in charge
    ... instead you continued to gripe and suggest apug was a backwater
    .. because as an analog site, it doesn't have forums on scanning and the needs
    of people doing hybrid and digital photography

    anti lab ??
    i agreed with you ... labs for the most part have to do the hybrid route ...
    i also posted a link for you for the hybrid group which discusses what you were looking to discuss ...
    you scan film, great .. so do i and a lot of people here ... don't hold it against the people who don't

    emasculated by digital ?
    i am a commercial photographer, and use a digital camera and digital technology and commercial labs,
    ... maybe you should stop generalizing ...

    if you don't agree to the charter and terms and conditions of apug
    i am not sure why you agreed to them and became a member ...

    where's jorge when you need him ?

    thanks sean -
    what toffle adn kleinmeister said !
    Last edited by jnanian; 09-22-2011 at 11:30 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #135

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    Thanks for the response Sean.

    I guess that settles it. Until the next time it comes up

  6. #136
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    Thanks Sean so much! Being a leader is about taking a position, sticking with it, using data to support it and affirming that position with the larger community! I highly respect you and what you have created! All things will follow when you have a vision and support and YOU MOST CERTAINLY DO!

  7. #137
    CGW
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    Back to the important stuff like "Your most recent MF purchase." Right.

    Suspect we'll be revisiting this again soon.

  8. #138

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    Sean +++

  9. #139

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    Wow, that took some time reading this entire thread. And it points out why I first simply registered and have finally subscribed to this amazing forum. All of us love cameras and film.....nothing else like it. It's very motivating indeed to see such a active discussion over analog film (and it's usage). I am glad Sean put the "no digital" thing in the rules and I think we all try and live up to that rule and just like any other "rule" there are going to be grey areas, as long as we try to limit it to what positively effects analog film usage I don't think any moderator will come down on us. The key being using analog film with analog cameras.

    I believe a "what is the best scanner" discussion would be best for DPUG and some mention directing us for proper techniques and processes using those scanners FROM this forum would be benificial to all, perhaps a sticky is all that is needed. When I need to know specifics about how to maximize my scanner, let DPUG be the leader there, just tell me where I need to go to get to the software sub-forum or the Epson V700 sub-formum, you get the idea.

    I don't think the occasional "I use VueScan" or "try 16-bit for better color depth" in a quick reply for help would be hurtful to our cause. Whatever method we use to display our analog film to the rest of the world only enriches others lives and promotes the whole analog film experience that all of us love......whether we use analog or digital or a combination of both to display it or promote it.

    Someone mentioned that this is an experience that matures. They are right. First I started taking pictures on my parents Kodak Instamatic. Then I got my own. That led me to working with a pro when I was in highschool, steadily I slowed down after college then those horrible first digital cameras came out. I knew I had to come back to film......it took almost a decade to come back full swing after I decided I wanted my "good" pictures again. You will notice nowhere have I mentioned "developing". Never did it, ever. All sent out. Then I was told about APUG......now I have I don't know how many cameras and all the flashes and tripods and cords and who knows what........but now I am about to enter the world of film developing, why? THIS FORUM and you guys.

    For now I have to have things scanned and am trying to bring that home to save money too.....now, thanks to YOU guys, I have started "thinking" about a real darkroom. Again, that would have never crossed my mind until the success stories I hear of here over and over again. Especially the encouragement to proceed at my own pace. I just wish I would have started this 10 or 20 years ago........

    Thank you Sean

    Bob E.
    Nikon F5, Nikon F4S, Nikon FA, Nikon FE, Nikon N90, Nikon N80, Nikon N75, Mamiya 645 Pro, Mamiya Press Super 23, Yashica Lynx 14e, Yashica Electro GSN, Yashica 124G, Yashica D

  10. #140
    Sean's Avatar
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    Thanks Bob, looking forward to seeing your darkroom build

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