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  1. #31
    CGW
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    ...these arguments about the aim and purpose of APUG are tedious and tiresome.

    But probably necessary at some point relative to the issues raised in this thread.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    ...these arguments about the aim and purpose of APUG are tedious and tiresome.

    But probably necessary at some point relative to the issues raised in this thread.
    I'm not sure it's all that necessary, but if others feel differently, then they can start a thread instead of hijacking this one.

  3. #33

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    I can only make a decision on a lab if I am informed as to their scanning services in some technical detail. As a younger person my analog photography is entirely tied to scanning services. I can barely remember a time when my photos were not scanned. I am now realizing my old local lab around the corner from my parents was an exception. I think the proprietor lost money doing BW but did it for the love of it and for longtime customers. My intent is to replace that service as best I can within reasonable cost.

    Discussions of scanning do not have to degenerate into a slapping contest, but I did not like the idea that my thread would be shut down for discussing scanning services offered by APUG sponsors. Nor do I think it good business to force someone to another website to discuss such matters. If APUG is only about darkrooms and not about lab services including scanning then it should say so, including to its sponsors. I did not mean to touch a nerve, but clearly there is an unresolved issue here. It is not tedious or tiresome to someone new here.

    I will try both The Darkroom and a couple of other places and report back. It would be helpful to those of us dependent on lab services to have a forum section dedicated to labs and all their services. This would facilitate commerce with them which I suspect would be good for analog photography overall and good for APUG.

    I do not foresee I will ever have a darkroom. I never learned the practice and work/life prohibits such an investment in space and time. Thank-you to the kind gentleman who informed me by PM about how to go about it. I just hope lab services continue to exist going forward and are affordable.

  4. #34
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzanneR View Post
    I'm not sure it's all that necessary, but if others feel differently, then they can start a thread instead of hijacking this one.
    Yeah, right. Those sorts of posts lack the context of this one and just result in a littany of "go to DPUG" answers.

    One of these days something will give, I suppose.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    One of these days something will give, I suppose.
    Probably the film manufacturers :P

    I hope not. I love film.

  6. #36

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    SNIP

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    Which is totally ridiculous. That's a fact.
    please don't pollute this thread with your gripes ...
    apug has a mission and it is narrow

    if you have a gripe with site policy take it up with the site moderators or owner.
    they make and enforce the rules ...
    Last edited by jnanian; 09-20-2011 at 03:59 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #37
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    SNIP



    please don't pollute this thread with your gripes ...
    apug has a mission and it is narrow

    if you have a gripe with site policy take it up with the site moderators or owner.
    they make and enforce the rules ...
    Why not discuss it openly? <<background sound of a key turning in the lock on this thread>>

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    SNIP
    please don't pollute this thread with your gripes ...
    apug has a mission and it is narrow

    if you have a gripe with site policy take it up with the site moderators or owner.
    they make and enforce the rules ...
    APUG has a mission that could conceivably reflect poorly on paying sponsors who advertise their scan services on APUG banner ads only to have subscribers denigrate that service as taboo "pollution". Think about that. I support APUG sponsors with my dollars precisely because they offer scanning.

    There are different paths to analog use and they need not be judged as gripes by the self-appointed. From the banner ads it is clear that the advertisers don't draw the same conclusions about these "gray" areas some here apparently do. in other words, there's no consensus. As a result this will repeatedly crop up. It's only contentious if you make it so.

    The Moderator already opened the door to discussions of scanning because they are "integral" to lab services. The OP made scan quality details a premise of the request. Hardly "pollution". So let's stop the labeling and just discuss the biz of getting the most out of our film photography using these very valuable lab resources. If they go, most of the rest of analog photography goes too.

  9. #39

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    i have no problem with discussing this sort of thing openly,
    but over the last 5+ years there have been troubles with people
    who cram their digit-agenda down people's throats, and it was not too much fun.

    if you have a beef with the site's mission statement, take it up with the moderators or sean
    rather than complain endlessly in threads about it ( that was the pollution i was talking about ).
    it is painfully obvious that we are in the 21st century .. that only a handful of labs make hand-prints,
    that there aren't many labs left that will process black and white film, or many places left to buy film ...
    but going on and on about how apug's mission statement is wrong and should reflect the whole hybrid/film-scan
    aspect of what some practice ... that isn't part of what apug is ... that is what dpug is ...

    sorry to sound "harsh" but apug is about film and prints, not about film and scanning ...
    i think the labs that advertise here know that ... and i think it is great that they are able to offer
    a wide pallet of services to the analog and analog/hybrid community.

  10. #40
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    According to the mission statement APUG is about something I cannot see defined anywhere in the official literature: "traditional".

    Virtually all labs I do biz with now are "hybrid" including a major APUG advertiser. So much for tradition.

    What really annoys young people is the pejorative "digit-agenda" and "pollution" and "painfully obvious" hyperbole masking as disdain for what virtually every economically viable lab does, which is scan to print. Labs that make it a point to advertise on APUG with bold words like "scan" and "digital". Look! There's one now.

    How are they supposed to get business on their core and "integral" services if self-appointed APUG members keep shushing users down about scanning as a normal and unavoidable service? It's a healthy discussion to have because it drives biz to the labs, whereas your talk does the opposite.

    It is now functionally impossible to have discussions about lab services without talking their integrated scanning quality. That's not a "digit-agenda" that's the advertising market sustaining APUG.

    I sense a very real age gap in this discussion. My "traditional" has always included scanning. DPUG is a ghetto because all the film talk is here and here alone, and when you are dealing with a lab, you discuss the whole chain of service comprehensively because that is the whole point of getting into a working relationship with a lab. I want to know their processing techniques and their papers and if they use a Hasselblad or a Noritsu, the whole works. They inform as a "hybrid" package so the idea that some APUG busybody slices the debate over a few keywords is beyond trivial, it's self-destructive to the business I'd like to give the advertisers.


    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    i have no problem with discussing this sort of thing openly,
    but over the last 5+ years there have been troubles with people
    who cram their digit-agenda down people's throats, and it was not too much fun.

    if you have a beef with the site's mission statement, take it up with the moderators or sean
    rather than complain endlessly in threads about it ( that was the pollution i was talking about ).
    it is painfully obvious that we are in the 21st century .. that only a handful of labs make hand-prints,
    that there aren't many labs left that will process black and white film, or many places left to buy film ...
    but going on and on about how apug's mission statement is wrong and should reflect the whole hybrid/film-scan
    aspect of what some practice ... that isn't part of what apug is ... that is what dpug is ...

    sorry to sound "harsh" but apug is about film and prints, not about film and scanning ...
    i think the labs that advertise here know that ... and i think it is great that they are able to offer
    a wide pallet of services to the analog and analog/hybrid community.

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