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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes
    I sense a very real age gap in this discussion. My "traditional" has always included scanning. DPUG is a ghetto because all the film talk is here and here alone, and when you are dealing with a lab, you discuss the whole chain of service comprehensively because that is the whole point of getting into a working relationship with a lab. I want to know their processing techniques and their papers and if they use a Hasselblad or a Noritsu, the whole works. They inform as a "hybrid" package so the idea that some APUG busybody slices the debate over a few keywords is beyond trivial, it's self-destructive to the business I'd like to give the advertisers.
    I've harped on this in the past. To extend the above points, I'd like to point out the 'many digital sites' out there that users are usually directed to DO NOT have the wealth of film experience that this site does. When I'm interested in talking about scanning techniques or how film dyes interact with scanner light spectra, this is the audience I want to interacts with. And that's because APUG is where the film experts are. (Largeformatphotography.info isn't too bad either.) Other sites are poor at best in my experience.

  2. #42

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    Last edited by jnanian; 09-21-2011 at 12:10 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #43
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    i have no problem with discussing this sort of thing openly,
    but over the last 5+ years there have been troubles with people
    who cram their digit-agenda down people's throats, and it was not too much fun.

    if you have a beef with the site's mission statement, take it up with the moderators or sean
    rather than complain endlessly in threads about it ( that was the pollution i was talking about ).
    it is painfully obvious that we are in the 21st century .. that only a handful of labs make hand-prints,
    that there aren't many labs left that will process black and white film, or many places left to buy film ...
    but going on and on about how apug's mission statement is wrong and should reflect the whole hybrid/film-scan
    aspect of what some practice ... that isn't part of what apug is ... that is what dpug is ...

    sorry to sound "harsh" but apug is about film and prints, not about film and scanning ...
    i think the labs that advertise here know that ... and i think it is great that they are able to offer
    a wide pallet of services to the analog and analog/hybrid community.
    Sorry but I've yet to see any digital blunt force trauma delivered or suffered here.

    Unless its "mission" involves near-term irrelevancy, a bit of flexibility on the scanning issue seems advisable. Again, the irony of a website devoted to analog process full of posted scanned images amounts to a 700lb gorilla APUG blithefully ignores.

  4. #44

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    By jumping in and attempting to shut down a discussion about lab scanning as part of a suite of services, APUG comes across as being anti-Lab.

    I doubt that is healthy for the community and photographic film industry for APUG to cleanse discussions about commercial lab scanning in the attempt to enforce some vision of analog purity.

    I've received some good advice here regardless, but I wish the discussion of lab services could have its own place on APUG. That would be very helpful. I was surprised to see that missing and made me wonder if this site was exclusively about darkroom hobbyists to the exclusion of lab customers like myself.

  5. #45

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    It seems that scanning falls into the "gray" area and those issues are directed to DPUG but perhaps a new forum could be added to APUG such as Lab Relations or something on that order that would address lab issues for those who use analog equipment but do not have access to a darkroom or desire to do their own processing and/or printing. This site gets more activity so it might provide more timely information for someone like Henry.

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

  6. #46
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    This thread has not been closed, but I'm tempted, not because I'm anti lab, because we seem to be beating a dead horse in this thread, and have gone well past the OP, which, btw, is a tall order IMNSHO, after all, custom work for cheap is hard to find.

    I don't think you can accuse APUG as being anti-lab, but the focus here is on traditional analog processes. Processes that people engage in by hand for the most part. Yes, scanning is important for all of us, so a measure of tolerance regarding scanning (I don't think it hurts the site if people comment on whether a lab is good at scanning, and their prices or some basic information about preparing a scan so someone can share their work in the gallery) is tolerated here. We don't want long technical discussions about scanning for digital printing output. There are plenty of other places to discuss that including out sister site, DPUG.

  7. #47

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    hi henry

    in case you need a longer list of labs -

    the darkroom,
    praus
    dr5
    ilford
    dalmationlabs
    elevator
    dwaynes
    bluemoon camera and machine
    cox b&w lab
    mv labs

    are just a few,
    they all will process film
    and if you ask, they will all probably provide you with a disk ...
    labs aren't cheap ...

    if you need a longer list just google "black and white photo lab"
    and you will find them ...



    i'm not sure how answering your question or questions about labs
    makes apug anti lab ?

    others jumped in to suggest that there should be a hybrid area here where the digital end
    of analog photography is discussed,
    i also posted a link to the hybrid group here in the groups area ...

    in case you missed it:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/groups/hy...oto-group.html

    i'm not quite sure what any that has to do with your question about labs

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzanneR View Post
    This thread has not been closed, but I'm tempted, not because I'm anti lab, because we seem to be beating a dead horse in this thread, and have gone well past the OP, which, btw, is a tall order IMNSHO, after all, custom work for cheap is hard to find.
    I never said custom work or cheap, so please do not put words into my mouth. I used the word affordable and I presume most of my negatives have been machine processed (at least I think they were). I have no problem with that.

    As I write this the banner ad for APUG says Film Developing $10 CD, Negs, Scans, Web Upload and More from The Darkroom. They do this for black and white as well as color. This is what caught my eye and drew me to APUG.

    If I want to do business with this company I would like feedback on the entirety of their services similar to the comfort I felt with my local lab. It's important to know that how they process will impact how they print and scan. I spoke with The Darkroom and they said they are all related. I was hoping to hear from APUG users about their suite of services before I commit. What I hear from APUG is that some discussion of the lab's services are OK, but other are only tolerated. It is bizarre to only accommodate a discussion of part of an advertiser's integral services and to limit discussion around it. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

    I don't think you can accuse APUG as being anti-lab, but the focus here is on traditional analog processes. Processes that people engage in by hand for the most part. Yes, scanning is important for all of us, so a measure of tolerance regarding scanning (I don't think it hurts the site if people comment on whether a lab is good at scanning, and their prices or some basic information about preparing a scan so someone can share their work in the gallery) is tolerated here. We don't want long technical discussions about scanning for digital printing output. There are plenty of other places to discuss that including out sister site, DPUG.
    If it is supposed to be processing and printing by hand, is that an official APUG stance? I cannot find a reference for that. That's great for the hobbyist with time and space but I though APUG had a broader vision. I came here looking for insights into third party labs.

    I may be misunderstanding the whole analog purity issue, but if APUG advertisers scan as part of their core services, is that not something that should be embraced by APUG instead of simply being tolerated?

    No one had a long technical discussion because before we even got there a non-moderator came in to tell us the thread may get shut down. Now I am inclined not to use the advertiser's services and inform them that APUG has a disconnect between their message on the forum and their tolerance of the advertiser's processes. Apparently the advertiser is not analog enough for discussion on APUG.

    I probably have $500 backlog worth of film to get developed, printed, and scanned in a declining film environment. You would think I would get help with that effort and bring that money to a sponsoring lab, but instead there is a barrier.

    I just don't get it. It's like the darkroom door won't open and the lights are broken.

    Anyway, thanks to all. The search continues. I will probably try a few places out with some test rolls.

  9. #49
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzanneR View Post
    This thread has not been closed, but I'm tempted, not because I'm anti lab, because we seem to be beating a dead horse in this thread, and have gone well past the OP, which, btw, is a tall order IMNSHO, after all, custom work for cheap is hard to find.

    I don't think you can accuse APUG as being anti-lab, but the focus here is on traditional analog processes. Processes that people engage in by hand for the most part. Yes, scanning is important for all of us, so a measure of tolerance regarding scanning (I don't think it hurts the site if people comment on whether a lab is good at scanning, and their prices or some basic information about preparing a scan so someone can share their work in the gallery) is tolerated here. We don't want long technical discussions about scanning for digital printing output. There are plenty of other places to discuss that including out sister site, DPUG.
    Have you actually looked at DPUG?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzanneR View Post
    This thread has not been closed, but I'm tempted, not because I'm anti lab, because we seem to be beating a dead horse in this thread, and have gone well past the OP, which, btw, is a tall order IMNSHO, after all, custom work for cheap is hard to find.

    [snip]

    There are plenty of other places to discuss that including out sister site, DPUG.
    I just want to point out two things:

    1) It's not really a dead horse if a significant part of the APUG community keeps bringing it up. It is an... unaddressed horse.

    2) There really aren't plenty of places. DPUG is not it. There are plenty of websites that discuss printing digital files with ink jets (and other kinds of printers). THERE ARE NOT PLENTY OF SITES WHICH DISCUSS SCANNING FILM. And the ones that do for the most part are very low information, with the sort of questions like "How do I digitize my slides?" Nothing sophisticated. Nothing talking about if and how the new Portra 400 is actually easier to scan. And why. Nothing talking about if Ektar actually does have a blue cast in the shadows when scanning, or if it's due to scanning techniques (something which a wet printing comparison would shed some light on). The only site I've found that has some relevance to this is the large format photography forum. So, the next time you or any other APUG moderators/users say, "There are plenty of other places to discuss that," maybe try to come up with some actual good suggestions for those other places. DPUG really isn't it. And if you can't come up with any suggestions (nothing wrong with that, I can't either) then maybe "There are plenty of other places to discuss that" isn't a valid response and you should just stick with "We don't discuss that here. Sorry we can't direct you to a place that does."

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