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  1. #41
    MDR
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    FP4 as Plus-X substitute? I always felt that Plus-X gave creamier tones than FP4+ at least at EI 50 in Microdol-X. Under the right conditions Plus-X was one of the most if not the most beautiful B/W film just ask Peter Lindbergh and Demarchelier (Tri-X and Plus-X users) and even though I consider Plus-X one of the best and most beautiful B&W films in existence I use Ilford FP4+ a lot more simply because it's easier to get in Austria (hear that Kodak distributor it's all your fault). I also believe that Kodak's decision to cut Plus-X from its program is a sad but necessary step in order for Kodak to survive and to be able to provide great film material to the not so large masses in the future.

    Dominik

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    mrred,

    Your comments are so true regarding cheap cameras and I agree that even cheap digital cameras have improved the quality of pictures taken by the average and less than average user. And that is the vast majority of the consumer market.

    Dave

  3. #43

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    Most recently it seems Kodak Plus-X 35mm sells for around $6.79 a roll in the US. It is easy to buy equivalent films for half that or less.

    It's an old strategy, When one doesn't want the business, you overprice the product.

    Kodak may not be able to force people to buy Plus-X film but with realistic pricing they most surely could have encouraged it.
    - Bill Lynch

  4. #44

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    You may recall that around a year before Plus-X in 120 was discontinued, Kodak offered rebates on the pro packs of Plus-X 120 in an attempt to get people to buy it. Apparently they didn't sell enough.

    Dave

  5. #45

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    I was considering starting to use Plus-X a few months ago when I took up black and white photography again so I'm kind of glad I chose a different film instead of building a workflow around something that just got discontinued a short time later. I remember kicking myself in 2002 because I'd been shooting Kodachrome 64 for about two years and I decided to test a few rolls of 25. I was happy with it and figured out how to shoot it for best results over a number of test rolls, and had just started heavily using it along with a coup,e of friends who decided to take it up based on the results I was getting, when the discontinuation rumors started up. I emailed Kodak to ask if there was any substance to those rumors and was told oh no, no plans to discontinue it at this time. A couple of weeks later the discontinuation notice Went out saying that Kodachrome 25 had ceased manufacture and it sold out within days.

    I've shot a number of E100G test rolls in 120 and 35mm with good results and I'd really like to use them a lot more but I'm hesitant to become deeply invested in a Kodak workflow because I just narrowly missed getting hit and previously getting hit several times with discontinuation notices followed by rapid product sellout and the necessity of starting out again with different film stock.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    FP4 as Plus-X substitute? I always felt that Plus-X gave creamier tones than FP4+ at least at EI 50 in Microdol-X. Under the right conditions Plus-X was one of the most if not the most beautiful B/W film just ask Peter Lindbergh and Demarchelier (Tri-X and Plus-X users) and even though I consider Plus-X one of the best and most beautiful B&W films in existence I use Ilford FP4+ a lot more simply because it's easier to get in Austria (hear that Kodak distributor it's all your fault). I also believe that Kodak's decision to cut Plus-X from its program is a sad but necessary step in order for Kodak to survive and to be able to provide great film material to the not so large masses in the future.

    Dominik
    For a moment I considered the Adox ART line (CHS 25, 50, 100) as (probably) the richest films in silver for the moment ..but what puts me off from it is its extremely thin and fragile base. Actually, I don't care for how much silver is in as long as I get results that satisfy me and doesn't abuse my whole development/enlargement process.

    cheers
    The-Trix-n-Plus-x user until the stock dries up.
    cheers
    Dominik
    http://distantmoon.pl

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbes View Post
    Actually, I don't care for how much silver is in as long as I get results that satisfy me...
    Exactly. Why obsess over technical specifications that don't really mean anything in the end? Just because the film has more silver doesn't mean it is any "better." Today's technology allows film manufacturers to do more with less, which is more efficient. And the films of today are "better" than films have ever been, at least on a technical level. IMO, the thing that gives Efke/Adox 25/50/100 the unique look is the spectral sensitivity far more than the amount of silver used. As PE has mentioned, adding lots of silver is a way that low-end film manufacturers often use to "cheat" more contrast from a poorly-made film. I love the Efke/Adox for it's look and for it's price, but T-Max it is not...not by a long shot.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    No but Ilford is doing ok. Kodak could have done a lot more to promote film and slow the demise, at least. ....
    Therein lies the rub. Kodak has made a very public and concerted effort to kill its film business, and it's succeeding admirably. But like most entities that commit suicide, the choice appears to be nonsensical and bizarre to outsiders.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  9. #49

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    I suspect they will continue to with draw from the b&w market until only CN400 is left and then they can discontinue all of the chemicals but E-6 and C-41. For me, the death of Kodak started with the withdrawal of Tech Pan and the old Kodachrome 25.

  10. #50

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    I like Ilford as much as the next guy, but don't forget that ILFORD WENT BANKRUPT! They were NOT doing ok. They had to restructure to get where they are today. And it's looking like Kodak might have to do that too, and it will probably be more difficult for them to do since they are (were) a bigger company. Whether or not they make it out of the other side is any one's guess.

    I'd also like to point out that since that time (2005?), while Kodak has discontinued some of it's films, they've also released quite a few new/updated emulsions. TMY-2, Portra VC/NC/800-2, Portra VC/NC/800-3, Portra 400, 160, and Ektar 100. They've also revamped their motion picture line at least once during that period with the Vision3 products - I'm not sure when the Vision2 stuff came out.

    Yes, Kodak has done some stupid stuff with it's business. They've also looked to transition from film to other things - which only makes sense for a large company trying to survive and escape from being shackled to a dying niche of business. However, to say they were trying to actively kill their film business is a bit disingenuous.

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